Who Betrayed Nicholas II?

[AGRBear]

Hmmm . . . is imperial blood harder to wash out?

Well, in any case, I guess Nicholas was lucky none of them had a change of clothes handy on Abdication Day.

I believe the Bolsheviks will  never  be free from  the blood of the ex-Tsar, his family and the others. 

AGRBear

[Tsarfan]

Well, as is the ex-tsar and his family, they're all dead, anyway.  So big deal.

[Belochka]

Well, as is the ex-tsar and his family, they're all dead, anyway.  So big deal.

I am not surprised by your pathetic and disrespectful attitude that is aimed to provoke a response.

The tragedy of the brutal death of the Emperor and his family is not yours to contemplate.

[Tsarfan]

The tragedy of the brutal death of the Emperor and his family is not yours to contemplate.

Nor is it yours to turn into a bizarre religious cult that you can impose on others.

I don't drink Kool-Aid that I don't mix myself.

[Belochka]

The tragedy of the brutal death of the Emperor and his family is not yours to contemplate.

Nor is it yours to turn into a bizarre religious cult that you can impose on others.

I impose nothing on anyone. You have no idea what I really believe, so please do not presume that you do.

Margarita

[Belochka]

I don't drink Kool-Aid that I don't mix myself.

Are you sure that it really was Kool-Aid and not a derivative?

[Louis_Charles]

Oh, well-played, Margarita. Now stick out your tongue at Tsarfan and promise not to sit with him in the cafeteria at lunchbreak.

If you cannot debate issues without coming across as the love child of Lenin and Margaret Dumont, you probably shouldn't try.

You do not read posts with an eye toward what they actually say (and Bear, the same goes for you). This ridiculous attitude that when people discuss Nicholas II in less that adulatory tones it somehow infringes upon your copywright is annoying at best. Why don't you try actually engaging in discussion, and stop giving the impression that you are on (very) temporary leave from Mt. Olympus, where you give the gods lectures on how to keep their divine standards up?

Sheesh. You and Bear have turned this thread into a joke. Oh, and by the way? This is me being direct.

Simon

[Bev]

Margarita, I really don't think that anyone has a particular lease on contemplating the end  of Tsar Nicholas II.  What I find "quaint" is this notion, that because of the luck and happenstance of his birth, he's exempt from showing empathy and compassion for other human beings.  No one is superior to anyone else by virtue of his birth.  No human being has the right to demand tribute from others by virtue of his birth.  Can you truly believe that Nicholas was above the law, that he was fore ordained by God to rule a people without thought to their dignity, their needs and their right to justice and fairness?  

I'm not being sarcastic, I really wonder how anyone can think that Gapon who worked tirelessly for the rights and dignity of the workers is evil, while the Tsar who did nothing for them is good - just because he was lucky in birth.

[Belochka]

Oh, well-played, Margarita. Now stick out your tongue at Tsarfan and promise not to sit with him in the cafeteria at lunchbreak.

If you cannot debate issues without coming across as the love child of Lenin and Margaret Dumont, you probably shouldn't try.

You do not read posts with an eye toward what they actually say (and Bear, the same goes for you). This ridiculous attitude that when people discuss Nicholas II in less that adulatory tones it somehow infringes upon your copywright is annoying at best. Why don't you try actually engaging in discussion, and stop giving the impression that you are on (very) temporary leave from Mt. Olympus, where you give the gods lectures on how to keep their divine standards up?

Sheesh. You and Bear have turned this thread into a joke. Oh, and by the way? This is me being direct.

Simon

Is that what this is all about - to hound me off the stage by a bunch of rambunctious comedians?

[Louis_Charles]

No. Insofar as it is about you at all --- it is about trying to get you to address people with simple respect, and stop wrapping yourself in the flag of a defunct empire everytime a discussion begins. You are not the Keeper of the Holy Flame, and you are not talking to the village idiots here, Ms. Nelipa. Try staying on topic, and stop being so damned patronizing, and you might find that people actually have something to say to you --- and want to hear what you have to say to them.

Simon

[Belochka]

No. Insofar as it is about you at all --- it is about trying to get you to address people with simple respect, and stop wrapping yourself in the flag of a defunct empire everytime a discussion begins. You are not the Keeper of the Holy Flame, and you are not talking to the village idiots here, Ms. Nelipa. Try staying on topic, and stop being so damned patronizing, and you might find that people actually have something to say to you --- and want to hear what you have to say to them.

Simon

I believe that you have said it all and leave me with no alternative but to leave.

[grandduchessella]

It's been obvious for awhile now that this thread arouses some strong feelings on both sides. I think everyone needs to step back and try to take their personal feelings about other posters out of the posts they write. I don't think that it benefits the thread nor the tone of the Forum. There are really valid points being made--and some very insightful and thought-provoking ones--but they're in danger of being lost in the name-calling, patronizing and snideness.

[AGRBear]

Back to topic.

Nicholas II felt betrayed.

He told us he did in his diary.

So whom do you think Nicholas II felt  had betrayed him?



AGRBear

[Tsarfan]

Back to topic.

Nicholas II felt betrayed.

He told us he did in his diary.

So whom do you think Nicholas II felt  had betrayed him?

He wrote that he saw cowardice and deceit "everywhere."  So, obviously, he thought everyone betrayed him.

The very narrow question you have posed over and over and over has been answered.  When one thinks literally, one should be satisfied with literal answers.  Can we end this charade now?

[Kurt Steiner]

So, as far as I have read -I have to reread it all again- it seems that we are divided between those who think that Nicholas' final downfall was caused by himself and those who think that he was betrayed -by the people, by his family, etc, there are many possibilities on this issue. Dunno why, but I think I simplyfing the situation a bit too much... Well, I think it's time for me to read a bit and try to do my bit here. If there is anything to add, of course.