Author Topic: Titles of Felix and Irina  (Read 29130 times)

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Katherine Alexandra Marie

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Titles of Felix and Irina
« on: May 16, 2004, 10:11:37 PM »
 As daughter of Grand Duke Aleksander Mikhailovich ['Sandro'] and HIH the Grand Duchess Ksenia Akexandrovna, their eldest child and only daughter, Irina would correctly have been known as HIH the Grand Duchess Irina - would she not? Yet sometimes, and not only after her marriage to Felix Youssoupov [himself a Prince], she is referred to with the title and style of Princess. Is the confusion due to an unsettled matter about what ought ot be her correct title: that of her birth, or that of her marriage? And what title did her daughter, another Irina, enjoy?

Among the reading I have done about these figures, understandably events were running so turbulently and high that it is understandable if the titles are a bit garbled. But I'd like to know, and if anyone has more information, should be most grateful.  Thanks.

Katherine Alexandra Marie [and yes, those really are my names;)]

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2004, 11:12:50 PM »
Katherine Alexandra Marie: Women in Russia take their titles from their fathers while unmarried and from their husbands after marriage as a general rule.

Irina's father was a great grandson of a tsar, so his children were styled Prince or Princess by the decree of Tsar Alexander III (who was also a grandfather of Sandro and Xenia's children). Alexander III did this to limit the size of the Imperial Family.

So, at her birth, Irina was styled HIH Princess Irina Alexandrovna. Upon her marriage to Prince Felix Yussupov, she became Princess Irina Yussupova. She may or may not have continued to use her HIH - it was not as a matter of form strictly correct - but many women who "marry down" do this.

Had she, by the way, married Grand Duke Dmitri, who was also courting her, she would have become Grand Duchess Irina.

Offline Lanie

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2004, 08:54:23 PM »
A little off topic--but what was Irina like, personality-wise?  I've oly seen a few photographs of her...  Was she close with OTMA and Alexei?  It seems as little children Olga and Irina were close...

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2004, 09:54:57 PM »
It's hard to tell when things started getting off track between the two families - Nicholas & Alexandra and their children were very close for a time to Sandro & Xenia and their family. Certainly by the time Irina married it was frosty in spots. But, there were 19 years in between hers and Olga's births and Irina's marriage. Irina was very close to her grandmother, the Dowager Empress, and to her mother. I don't know how close she was permitted to be with her cousin.

Offline Anya

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2004, 02:40:04 PM »
I have already read that Irina was really close to Olga and Tatiana in their childhood.
There is a really cute picture of the three girls, with Irina holding Tatiana's hand. They seemed really close, at least when kids...

Offline Annie

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2004, 08:39:14 PM »
I have read things about Olga visiting Irina after she was married to Yussoupov, well into WW1.

Here is something on her personality- when she and Felix were in the Crimea while the Provisional Gov't was in power, they went back to St. Petersburg to talk to Kerensky about some important things. When Kerensky invited the couple into his office, which had been the Tsar's office, he asked them to take a seat. Irina did- right in her Uncle's chair! Kerensky didn't bother to challenge her and let her stay! She was a strong willed girl not afraid to speak her mind.

Leuchtenberg

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2004, 12:25:56 AM »
Prior to her marriage, Irina would have had the title and style of Her Highness Princess Irina of Russia.  Being a great grandchild of a Tsar in the male line, she wouldn't have been an Imperial Highness.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2004, 11:53:59 PM »
You are correct that the style was not HIH as I stated earlier but HH.

Offline JM

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2004, 04:53:10 PM »
Quote
Here is something on her personality- when she and Felix were in the Crimea while the Provisional Gov't was in power, they went back to St. Petersburg to talk to Kerensky about some important things. When Kerensky invited the couple into his office, which had been the Tsar's office, he asked them to take a seat. Irina did- right in her Uncle's chair! Kerensky didn't bother to challenge her and let her stay! She was a strong willed girl not afraid to speak her mind.


I love that story! However, I don't really know if it directly reflects her personality. Aside from this particular incident I don't recall her ever showing a strong-willed or independent streak. I think that Felix's personality may have overpowered Irina's.

Leuchtenberg

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2004, 06:41:12 PM »
I'm not sure Felix's personality overpowered Irina.  I expect  she was a very strong person, but most of that was overshadowed  by her husband's very flamboyant and selfabsorbed manner.

Offline dianoshka

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2004, 06:52:17 PM »
What was Irina's official title in Russian?


Offline Valmont

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2004, 10:31:57 AM »
Yes, I have  been wondering the same,  I know after her marriage she was no longer  Irina of Rusia, but Princess Yussupof, but I have also read things about her and she is being refered as Countess Elston-Sumarokoff.. I wonder what her official title was..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Valmont »
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Olga

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2004, 10:37:35 AM »
Something like....

Yehyo Vysochestvo, Knyazhna Irina Alexandrovna Rossii.  (before marriage)
  • Her Highness, Princess Irina Alexandrovna of Russia

Yehyo Vysochestvo, Knyazhna Irina Alexandrovna, Grafinya Sumarokova-Elstona. (after marriage)
  • Her Highness, Princess Irina Alexandrovna, Countess Sumarokova-Elstona.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by olga »

Offline Teddy

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2004, 01:53:28 PM »
Irina was born a princess of Russia and after her marriage she was a princess Yussopov.

Was she still a princess of Russia? Or was that title only history?

Here is a custom when a princess for example from Spain would marry a prince of Holland, the princess is not only after her marriag princess of Holland, but stil princess of Spain.

Offline Teddy

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Re: Titles of Felix and Irina
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2004, 03:32:34 AM »
I have found the answer of above question about myself on another website.

In a letter of the Emperor Nicolas te second to the Grand Duke N.N. states that a Russian Princess of the Imperial blood (in this case Irina) who contract a marriage to someone of not equal rank (Felix) will abdicate her rights to the Imperial throne if there will be no male descendants left. But she can still use her title and privleges as a Russian Princess of Imperial Blood.

Conclusion Irina was still after a marriage a princess of Imperial Blood, with the only exception that she never could clame her rights to the Imperial Throne if there were no male descendants were left.