Author Topic: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I  (Read 242511 times)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #300 on: August 30, 2007, 07:53:09 PM »
The fact that both Vicky & Fritz are into dialogue with Alix made confrontation unlikely. Fritz already made his case with Dagmar, when he attended her wedding in St.Petersburg. Had he been Emperor, the Great War would have been avoided as both he and Bismark knew the limits of what Britian & France can take without going into war.  :(

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #301 on: August 31, 2007, 01:02:22 AM »
You make the point that Alix had signficant influence, and I agree completely.

Further, Willy's influence was much more bark than bite and it was a deadly shame that his relatives assisted in heating up the pressure cooker because of their significant annoyances with his personality quirks while millions had to lose their lives because of it.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #302 on: August 31, 2007, 04:00:31 AM »
She did...So much so that Bertie refused to let her see the dispatch boxes. However he told his son George that his wife May can see them.  :)

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #303 on: August 31, 2007, 10:32:28 AM »
indeed. Alix and her sister were essentially committed to as long term PR campaign against Germany. It kicked into high gear once QV and Vicky were gone, as it would have clearly been not only offensive to them, but they would have opposed Alix's positions and actions greatly. A powerful, popular spouse of a leader CAN make a huge impact not only on public opinioin but on political/social decisions, and the growing anti-german sentiments were both fueled and in some cases created by her. All together they helped greatly in turning Great Britain away from a friendly relaitonship with Germany and paving the path to war.  :(
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #304 on: September 02, 2007, 09:21:26 PM »
I don't think it was one sided. Prussia/Germany was building itself into a military state. The other countries would be fools if they don't plan ahead. Bertie and Sasha hoped the alliances would put Germany in its place, but it did not work. Had Vicky been alive, she would have seen that coming.  :(

Offline dmitri

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #305 on: September 03, 2007, 09:32:04 AM »
Yes it is good that she did not see it happen. She would have been heartbroken. Nicholas II bore much of the blame as his mobilisation of forces was considered a declaration of war by the Kaiser who repeatedly warned him of the consequences.

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #306 on: September 03, 2007, 03:16:04 PM »
thank you dimitri for pointing this out as I have done many times before yet this very critical fact is so often disregarded and/or ignored.
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Offline LenelorMiksi

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #307 on: September 09, 2007, 12:09:01 PM »


Another 4 generations picture: Vicky, Charly, Feo & Queen Victoria.
Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse:  "Each year brings us nearer to the Wiedersehen [reunion with the dead], though it is sad to think how one's glass is running out, & how little good goes with it, compared to the numberless blessings we receive.  Time goes incredibly fast."

Offline dmitri

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #308 on: September 09, 2007, 12:22:27 PM »
How different things would have been for Vicky and Queen Victoria if Prince Albert had lived as long as his older brother. Both Mother and daughter knew the sadness of being widows for an extended period and also losing children. No wonder Vicky and Queen Victoria were so very close. Fate was cruel to both women.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #309 on: September 09, 2007, 09:31:48 PM »
Well...At least QV was a Queen, Vicky was a prisoner in Berlin who had to endure attacks by her children and Bismark.  :'(

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #310 on: September 10, 2007, 02:29:11 PM »
I wouldn't say Vicky was a "prisoner" in Berlin. She accepted as Crown Princess many restrictions as well as opportunities to her life. With affluence and status come some regs, not unlike most of her contemporaries.

i also do not think fate was particularly cruel to these two, very favorite, endeared Mother and daughter combination. yes, they lost husbands way too early; not uncommon. Vicky lost chidren; few did not. they had their rebellious, ungrateful children; who didn't? Looking at them with a 'glass is half full' orientation, they had wonderful lives of privilege that they crafted and directed in good ways for benefits of many. they each left legacies that exist to this day of positive, honorable, and compassionate leadership and views which are to this day longed for among the average populations of the world to have in their current leaders.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #311 on: September 10, 2007, 08:02:23 PM »
Well...After Fritz died. QV invited her daughter hom for a holiday. After years of abuse in the German press funded by Bismark, Vicky was touched to see that the British people welcomed her in open arms. She was STILL "their" Princess Royal ! Tears of pride stream down her face. She later told her nieces if it wasn't her desire to keep her husband's ideals and memory alive, she would have gladly retire back to her homeland...in the bosem of her family.

Offline dmitri

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #312 on: September 11, 2007, 12:28:11 AM »
Yes there is no doubt she was treated abominably by Bismarck and his fellow Junker travellers. The tragedy for Germany is their narrow minded view of Germany ultimately contributed to the collapse of the Hohenzollern monarchy.

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #313 on: September 11, 2007, 11:09:58 AM »
Bismarck did treat Vicky badly as did the press but that happened to many and she was a big girl who was able to handle it. Bismarck came calling with his tail between his legs in the end.

Germany was no more narrow minded than any of the powers of the era. In fact, with her leading role in the arts, music, science, social welfare, education, philosophy, and political thinking, Germany was far less narrow minded as a culture than most. What the aristocracy lacked was the willingness to embrace the rapid, diverse changes that were taking place under their noses.

The war, not their aversion to modernize, led to their downfall. had the war not crushed everything in the social structure, the hohenzollerns would have plotted along and sidelined slowly like every other institution that got in the way of 20th century industrial and capitalist power machines.
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Offline dmitri

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #314 on: September 11, 2007, 12:29:24 PM »
Well perhaps. It was the power held by the German Kaiser and its unwise usage that caused many problems. This needed to be handled carefully and gradually changed. The war was an enormous mistake. Maintaining the narrow form of monarchy without changed allowed for a greater role for the military in Wilhelmine Germany than should have been the case. Evolution ceased and militarism ran rampant. It is not surprising with the collapse of the monarchy that its successor state was constantly challenged by a military who did not wish to see democracy flourish. This was also the same military that made no attempt to stand up to the excesses of the Third Reich, even before the invasion of Poland in 1939. Democracy really only came to Germany as a result of it being imposed after the end of the second world war. It was not part of the natural way of governance before then. That is why Friedrich III was needed so much as change would have occurred under him. Sadly it did not and the results are only too well known.