Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I

[Eric_Lowe]

One must not forget the Prussia was an autocrat state. Vicky and her husband were subject to obey the emperor. Wilhelm II and Bismark distrusted her loyalty and her English ways and sought to influence Willy through his appointment of governors, tutors and spoil his vanity. Vicky had no choice but to sit back and let the drama played itself. She had hoped things will be righted when they came to throne. However fate played a nasty trick on her and Fritz...

[grandduchessella]

why was willy raised by his grandparents?  vicky and frederick were there and able to parent him......why did no one put their foot down and insist on the grandparents not interfering?  i know how i would be if anyone tried to come between me and my children......and if my mother was queen of england that would only increase my boldness against interfering inlaws. 

She became her father-in-law's subject once he became King (and later Emperor) and subject to his laws. She had to apply for permission to take the children on vacation--even within Germany, let alone to other parts of Europe or to England--and this was often refused or rescinded once given. Once Wilhelm and Augusta decided on the path the heir's education would take, that was it. Even Dona, who was in a stronger position as a more 'regular' royal wife, had no say when her sons were shipped off to military school. Her sister, who married Wilhelm's cousin Friedrich Leopold, frequently butted heads with her imperial brother-in-law. He once placed her family under house arrest because she'd gone ice skating (in defiance of an order of his) and it was made public when she fell through the ice. They had rules are skating, bicycle riding and other activities--all had to be cleared through the Kaiser and his rule was law. Their sons too were removed from them at 'suitable' ages to go to the military academy despite the strong wishes of their family.

[Eric_Lowe]

Indeed ! Married to a Prussian is no laughing matter. When Princess Louise (Vicky's younger sister) was sent by QV to look over some princes that was selected to be her husband, she didn't accept any of them. Louise looked at the heel clicking military like princes and their lack of freedom, made her turn back without any regret. 

[carkuczyn]

i guess alix was fortunate that her father in law died before she and nicky had any children then.  i don't think she would have been quite so easy to handle when it came to who controlled her children!  i would hate to have seen her and alexander III lock horns.  lol

[CountessKate]

While it's very true the Emperor Wilhelm I and Empress Augusta exercised a very intrusive authority over Vicky's children, I think it would be wrong to say they actually brought Willy up.  What they did was indulge him and give him an importance in his own eyes which he saw his parents denying him - his parents of course saw it as keeping his too sizeable ego in check.  With his parents isolated for their unpopular views Willy was only too keen to leap on the bandwagon and openly oppose them, especially as it won him more favour with his powerful grandparents.  It was a pretty ordinary generational struggle which became much nastier because of the high political stakes involved. 

While Willy and his mother were very distant after Friedrich III died, I understand there was more of a rapprochement towards the end of her life - although Willy's ideas on bonding seemed to involve arriving unannounced with a large suite of attendants whom it was inconvenient to feed and house.  Still, I believe he purchased for her some land alongside her estate she wanted but couldn't afford to buy, and generally tried to be a little more attentive.  However, too little and too late - hence why she got Ponsonby to smuggle out her correspondence with Queen Victoria before she died to remain as a testament to her good intentions. 

[Ada]

I have also read that the tutor Vicky and Fritz hired to be in charge of Willy's education (Georg Hinzpeter) had a great influence
on the boy, and turned him against his parents in subtle but effective ways.  Vicky unfortunately did not realize this at first, and
by the time she did it was too late.

[HerrKaiser]

CountessKate and Ada seem to be right on from what I have studied and learned, as well. Part of the problem Vicky had in being torpedoed in raising Willy was her age; she was just a teenager when she gave birth to him, and in spite of her upbringing, education, and training, I suspect she (and Fritz) had little idea that the forces lurking in the background were as strong and devious as they were. By the time willy had develope his personality and ideas about the world, it was too late to effectively alter the course of that rushing river, so to speak.

And yes, Willy did try to be more of a 'good son' in the last years of Vicky's life. Which makes him and all of the popular biases about him come into question, in part, in my opinion. I think he was reaching out and probably knew himself it was all too little too late. he did the same thing with QV; and his vigil at her deathbed reflects his desire to make up for lost time. Too bad he didn't replay that scene when Vicky died a few months later.

[grandduchessella]

He was on his yacht when Vicky took a turn for the worst--he was apparently furious at Dona for either not having been there herself or for not notifying him in time--I can't remember which.

Newspaper accounts of the 2nd memorial service (there were 3 services--one just family, the other with some extended members, including Bertie, and a 3rd formal funeral service) say that he walked up to the bier, sank down on one knee and fell upon her casket and, with his head wrapped in the folds of the covering, wept loudly for several minutes. This scene was illustrated in one of the Memorial Issues put out--Illustrated London News or Graphic, I can't recall. Bertie was apparently quite overtaken as well as he placed a wreath on her coffin.

[Eric_Lowe]

Yes...I think Willy had much better relationship with Vicky at the last phase of her life. Vicky told Sophie that it is alright to deal with Willy if she kept her mouth closed. As a political animal, it must be jarring to see her son ran the country very contrary to what she believed in (she wisely did not approve dropping Bismark from the helm even though privately she did have an exe to grind). However as a foreigner, Willy did fear her possible influence. After her death he made known that it was he who prevented Vicky from being wrapped naked in the Union Jack to be buried in Windsor (which is laughable since she already decided the place where she and her beloved Fritz should lie)....

[ilyala]

there are many cases of crown princesses not being able to raise their children. because women married young and gave birth young and were considered inappropriate or incapable of raising them. there was also the basic idea that queens and princesses are supposed to be way too royal to do trifle things like spending time with children, changing diapers, nursing, playing - and other typical stuff.

for example, anne of denmark - queen consort of england and scotland as wife of james 1st/6th - was not allowed to raise her children, despite the fact that the king' parents were dead/imprisoned by the time she came to have any. but it was considered inappropriate for her to do anything other than visit them once a day. she drowned her misery in alcohol.

an even better example is that of catherine the great. when she gave birth to tsar paul 1st, tsarina elizabeth took him away from catherine and raised him herself. this led to a very strong conflict - paul hated catherine immensly and catherine didn't trust him at all. when paul had children his two oldest sons - alexander 1st and his brother constantine - were raised by catherine who didn't think paul could do a good job at it. she even wanted to skip paul and name alexander as her direct successor but she died before she managed to do that.

there's of course queen marie of romania. king carol and queen elizabeth thought of her as way too libertine to raise the future heir. carol and elizabeth - marie's oldest children - were the subjects of many influence fights. carol and elizabeth insisted on naming the tutors and marie insisted she'd have her say. this was disastruous for the two - two of the most despised royals in history.

and who can forget sissi? out of all her children she only managed to raise her youngest daughter, valerie. her meddling mother in law, sophie, insisted that sissi was not good enough to raise the heir to the throne. maybe she was right, but she definitely was cruel. and sissi's later troubles i'm sure were at least influenced by her mother in law's attitude.

this was a common problem in royalist circles.

[Eric_Lowe]

True...although quite a few got away with it too. Alix had Bertie's full backing to raise her brood entirely according to her taste (some call it unfortunately). She kept them immature and a kind of never-neverland where people do not grow old and Motherdear was all important.Vicky must be very envious of her sister-in-law's liberty here, even though she did not approve the way she raise her children. 

[jfkhaos]

Going back to grandduchessella's comment about Willy getting upset with Dona, I just wanted to add some clarification.  Dona had been attending the Empress in her final illness when she left to meet Willy on his arrival.  At that time, Willy berated Dona in front of several people for not remaining with his mother.

[Eric_Lowe]

Indeed ! That is the only time that Willy did not approve of Dona being unkind or inattentive to Vicky. I cannot say that I wasn't happy at Dona's discomforture being so nastyfor such a long time towards her mother-in-law.

[HerrKaiser]

Was Dona ordered to attend to Vicky and hold a vigil, as it were, or did she desire this role?

Were any of Willy's children there?

How long after Vicky's death did Willy realize that Vicky's private letters that in some ways placed him in unflattering light were out of his grasp? Did this cause him to rebuke Vicky?

[YaBB_Jose]

Frederick III and Vicky's daughters were known by there nicknames/family names:
Charlotte was Charly
Victoria was Moretta
Margareth was Mossy

I can see the Charlotte/Charly but what about the others ? Where did came from ?
And Sophie, future Queen of the Helenes ? Did she had a "name" ?

What about the boys ?
The kaiser was Willy but did any of his brothers had any special name ?