Author Topic: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I  (Read 242496 times)

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Offline pandora

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #330 on: October 13, 2007, 08:53:00 AM »
Thank you all for your reading suggestions as they are very helpful. I'm on a 'seek-n-find mission' for a few of these books this weekend.

Just a side note of a personal nature, not only would Bismarck driven me to the edge but her older children needed a good, stern kick in the bum, in my opinion.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #331 on: October 14, 2007, 10:15:32 PM »
As Queen Victoria would have said !  :)

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #332 on: October 16, 2007, 11:12:37 AM »
Well QV said that about her own children too on occasion.

Regarding her letters, it does remain true that the "holes" in history created by the destroyed letters (including ones Vicky sent to QV) will never be completely mitigated. Bea went to her grave with the secrets and as such we can hypothesize that the letters included some real doozies that England would not want to have be known.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #333 on: October 16, 2007, 02:37:33 PM »
There were also many letters that Vicky and Queen Victoria requested that the other destroy at the time. These created gaps that Roger Fulford sometimes attempted to fill in when he published some of their letters to each other.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #334 on: October 16, 2007, 09:56:34 PM »
I suspect they deal with politics...things they did not want known they knew.  ???

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #335 on: October 17, 2007, 10:59:58 AM »
My own suspiciion is that the destroyed letters probably contained thoughts and comments that would have been more embarrassing to the British royal family than the German royal family. QV had more to lose than Vicky, it would seem. And QV had a never-ending tug at her heart for things German as she saw in such images of her beloved husband. had the letters been filled with anti German type sentiments and dialogue, Beatrice would have flaunted such during and after WWII as another means to help validate the war and victory. So, if one was to look at the trashing of the letters as a "crime", one would have to consider motive. There would be no motive if the letters paralleled current public opinion, but great motive if QV and her family appeared to be too impressed with the enemy.
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Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #336 on: October 17, 2007, 11:27:03 AM »
I know of no incidence of Beatrice destroying any of the letters between QV and Vicky. Vicky did at times ask her mother to destroy some letters (her thoughts on Bismarcks' passing for example) or to "scratch out with her pen" certain passages. I think Vicky did this to protect herself more than anything. QV did advise her to write about her health on a seperate sheet of paper.  Vicky was not well liked and some of her views where rather controversial and could have damaged her. She was frightened of any "leaks", which did occur once when a letter she sent to her mother somehow got out and QV had to reassure her it had not happened her end (perhaps some disloyal servant/spy of Vickys.

Interestingly QV did not destroy some letters that Vicky specifically asked her too.
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Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #337 on: October 17, 2007, 06:36:29 PM »
I thought it was a well documented fact that Beatrice edited, rewrote, and destroyed parts of QVs papers including letters. is this not so? I even recall Queen Elizabeth stating such in an interview about royal history.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #338 on: October 17, 2007, 08:55:41 PM »
It was her journals that she'd kept from childhood right up until her death (having a lady-in-waiting or relative writing for her as she grew frailer) that Beatrice edited.
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Offline The Patrician

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #339 on: October 22, 2007, 01:46:52 PM »
I have certainly seen it written that Princess Beatrice destroyed much of Q V's correspondence with her Son Alfred.  They had a difficult relationship once he reached adulthood.  She found him 'much wanting'.  He did not take kindly to her constant interference and the tone of many of her letters and and was less concilliatory than the rest of her children.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #340 on: October 22, 2007, 10:36:11 PM »
I wonder about her letters to Marie Coburg. That should be interesting as both women adopted a tell-it-like-it-is attitude.  ::)

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #341 on: October 23, 2007, 01:06:23 PM »
It is in fact interesting that so much of Vicky's correspondence with her mother survived, given that the general sentiment of the times was for wholesale conflagration of personal writings.  Beatrice was Queen Victoria's literary executor and whatever we feel today about what she did with her mother's journals, it is pretty certain that Queen Victoria would have approved.  From her letters to Vicky, it looks as if Victoria expected her daughter to take a much more destructive line with the letters, keeping only the most 'historical' and impersonal, and the thought of other people reading intimate/indiscreet matters would have been anathema.  While the most outspoken letters seem to have been destroyed, there's still quite a bit where Queen Victoria has instructed her daughter to 'burn this' which clearly she didn't!  Vicky's agenda seems to have been to preserve her reputation for posterity, after the blackening of her name by Bismark and her son as anti-German.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #342 on: October 23, 2007, 09:32:17 PM »
Indeed ! I like Vicky's style of writing very much.  ;)

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #343 on: October 24, 2007, 01:46:03 AM »
Well Vicky herself said she wanted her letters to survive as she never kept a journal and the letters were a record of her life in Germany!
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part I
« Reply #344 on: October 24, 2007, 05:30:15 AM »
Hmmm...Even though she did wrote to many people and not just to her mother and daughter... ???