The House of Hannover,past and present

[lancashireladandre]

Hi.

I just read about from another thread that Princess Frederica died in England and left jewels to the Duke of Gloucester. Is that true ?

Also I thought Ferderica lived in Southern France, and her place was used by Ena taking lesssons to become Catholic. Right ?

Don't know too much about her later life. Anyone help ?  

From memory without checking ....Frederica lived at least part of her married life in a " grace and favour" residence in England from her marriage she had only one daughter who died either at birth or very young. She died in 1926,her husband in 1932

[grandduchessella]

I don't know about the first part. The 2nd part is true though. Frederica's house was used as a sanctuary for Ena and Alfonso to meet somewhat privately though the news media (which was avidly following the romance--even in the US) still found out. There was a nice picture from when the engagement was announced that showed Frederica with the happy couple, Beatrice and, I believe, Marie Christina.

Frederica was very close to her English relatives and QV helped facilitate (after urging from Leopold, who'd once hoped to perhaps marry Frederica) her romance and marriage to Baron Pawel-Rammingen (sp). Both of them are buried at either Frogmore or St George's--I'll have to check for the specifics.

I've never heard of a great attachment to the Duke of Gloucester (GV's son Henry) though.

[Michael_II]

I believe in JPH's bio of Queen Mary speaking of the Duke of Gloucester's marriage Queen Mary said that Frederica "cousin Lilly" had left  "some nice diamond things."  Also only Fredrica and her daughter Victoria are buried in the royal vault at St. George's Chapel, Windsor along with Frederica's father George V on Hanover.  The Baron lies buried in a cemetery in Biarritz.

[grandduchessella]

I believe in JPH's bio of Queen Mary speaking of the Duke of Gloucester's marriage Queen Mary said that Frederica "cousin Lilly" had left  "some nice diamond things."  Also only Fredrica and her daughter Victoria are buried in the royal vault at St. George's Chapel, Windsor along with Frederica's father George V on Hanover.  The Baron lies buried in a cemetery in Biarritz.

Many thanks--I had meant to go back and check but I was busy splitting my time between watching/listening to football (US) and looking through photos.

Do you know why she and her husband are buried separately?

[Michael_II]

I am sorry I can't answer the why.    

[Michael_II]

Here's some further information on Princess Frederica of Hanover, Baroness von Pawel-Rammingen:

Born:  9 January 1848.
Parents:  George V of Hanover and Princess Marie of
               Saxe-Altenburg.
Died:  16 October 1926, Biarritz, France.
Buried:  18 November 1926, Royal vault, St. George's
             Chapel, Windsor.    
Married:  24 April 1880, St. George's Chapel, Windsor,
              Luitbert, Baron von Pawel-Rammingen.
Born:  27 July 1843.
Died:  20 November 1932, Biarritz, France.
Buried:   Cimetiere du Sabaou, Biarritz.
Issue:
1.  Victoria von Pawel-Rammingen
    Born:  7 March 1881.
    Died:  27 March 1881.
    Buried:  31 March 1881, Royal vault, St. George's
                 Chapel, Windsor.

[Michael_II]

Many thanks--I had meant to go back and check but I was busy splitting my time between watching/listening to football (US) and looking through photos.

Do you know why she and her husband are buried separately?

One reason that he was not buried with Princess Frederica maybe simply that he was a Baron the equerry of George V.  And given the fact that Queen Mary was on the throne she had definate views on such matters.
When in 1930 she had the remains of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge moved to the royal vault St. George's Chapel from Kew the remains of their chamberlain also a Baron remained in the mausoleum at Kew.  If you look at the list of those buried in the royal
vault there are no Barons there.

[Leuchtenberg]

Princess Frederica was given the CI, the RRC, and made a Dame of Justice of the Order of St. John.  Oddly enough, she never received the Order of Victoria and Albert.

In the UK, Queen Victoria accepted the Princess' husband as a member of the Royal Family, but in terms of precedence at Court, the Baron was at the very bottom.  In this he fared far better than in the courts of Germany where for the most part he was snubbed as a husband of a Royal princess.

[grandduchessella]

One reason that he was not buried with Princess Frederica maybe simply that he was a Baron the equerry of George V.  And given the fact that Queen Mary was on the throne she had definate views on such matters.
When in 1930 she had the remains of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge moved to the royal vault St. George's Chapel from Kew the remains of their chamberlain also a Baron remained in the mausoleum at Kew.  If you look at the list of those buried in the royal
vault there are no Barons there.

Baron P-R was a relative though whereas the Cambridge's chamberlain wasn't. I could see why he would remain at Kew rather than going to the Royal Vault.

Could it be that it was because he died at Biarritz on 20 Nov 1932? Helen, Duchess of Albany, was buried overseas where she died rather than next to Leopold. She didn't want her body to be shipped back. Maybe it was preference rather than precedence.

[grandduchessella]

Okay, I don't know why this is such a big deal but it was in one of those lots--there were 3 that had Frederica in them.

I'll get the catalog down and scan the page so you can see I didn't use your win.

[grandduchessella]

Your work never ends, does it?    

Doesn't seem like it, does it? But it keeps my mind off Bob leaving.  

Anyway, to happier topics.

From Noel: "Ena and her mother were to be the guests of Princess Frederica of Hanover who had represented the Empress Eugenie at Ena's christening. The press was quickly on to the scent and reporters immediately began infiltrating the area from several countries"

Also Noel: describing the wedding day he mentions that Frederica rode with Alice and Alexander Teck (later Athlone) in the first carriage to leave the church and quotes Alice remarking to Frederica how dangerous all the bouquets bouncing off the carriages seemed.

[Eric_Lowe]

Thank you all for the information on "Cousin Lily",

I got the catalogue too, but didn't see a lot of mouth-watering pictures in the catalog. I did see one of Ferderica and her sister Mary there. Not too much info on the relationship between Frederica and her parents after she eloped. Did they reconcile later ? Did she go back to Austria to visit her parents and siblings ?

[grandduchessella]

From Zeepvatt's bio on Leopold: describing F at 25 'a tall woman, stately rather than beautiful, and quite shy'

'In October the Queen allowed him to visit...Gmunden, officially to see the widowed Queen on her behalf, but really to assess his chances [for marriage to F]. Unfortunately, this only deepened his feelings for another woman who was out of reach. Frederica was in love with her father's secretary, Baron Alfons von Pawel-Rammingen. The old King would not hear of marriage, nor would his son, and she would marry no one else. Leopold did not propose because he sensed that it was hopeless..'

'After his failure to propose...[he] felt very dispirited. In January 1879, she arrived in London, and he was sent to meet her. He found it hard to shake off the longing that thigns could be different between them, and as the weeks passed, that longing grew. In February..he told his mother that he wanted to marry and she was sympathetic, though she advised caution. Frederica was not mentioned...The dream of Frederica was doomed to failure. Leopold still hankered after her when he returned...in april, and Alick Yorke appealed to friends to speak to her on his behalf, but soon Frederica took the matter in hand and confessed her feelings for Baron von Pawel-Rammingen. To his credit, Leopold's attitude changed as soon as the truth came out...he set his feeings aside and did his utmost to help her. As a member of the House of Hanover, frederica was also a Princess of Great Britain and Ireland, and the Queen could give permission for her marriage. This she did, undertaking to pay for the ceremony and provide the couple with a home. 'Leopold has been her great help throughout', she told the Crown Princess [Vicky].'

As a mark of his friendship, when he married Helen, knowing his time could always be cut short, he had included a bequests of GBP 1000 for Frederica who 'had no resources of her own and remained one of his dearest friends'.

Frederica in turn became close to Helen as well, frequently visiting her and Leo. This friendship continued, perhaps even strengthened, after Leo's death.

[grandduchessella]

Thank you all for the information on "Cousin Lily",

I got the catalogue too, but didn't see a lot of mouth-watering pictures in the catalog. I did see one of Ferderica and her sister Mary there. Not too much info on the relationship between Frederica and her parents after she eloped. Did they reconcile later ? Did she go back to Austria to visit her parents and siblings ?

Well, the photo from the catalog--taken in 1902--was taken in Gmunden for what that's worth.

[Eric_Lowe]

Yes...I guess they sort of reconciled.   Although I knew that Frederica was not there when her mother Queen Marie passed away. I have a letter written by Lily telling a friend how she recieved news of her mother's death.