Author Topic: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants  (Read 265477 times)

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Offline Keith

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #180 on: February 05, 2006, 05:20:53 PM »
I'll have to go through my Royalty Digest copies, but I'm positive in one of them, it mentions that Ernie said Irene was the peacemaker of the family.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #181 on: February 05, 2006, 07:58:37 PM »
Yes...but he also said that Irene was a busybody. She certainly did NOT support Ella when she decided to enter the Orthodox Church.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #182 on: February 06, 2006, 03:40:04 PM »
Quote
Yes...but he also said that Irene was a busybody. She certainly did NOT support Ella when she decided to enter the Orthodox Church.


Really? What did she say? I imagine it wasn't as drastic as Wilhelm to Sophie--you're going to hell for converting.
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Offline Keith

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #183 on: February 06, 2006, 05:10:39 PM »
I thought the only one of the family that really supported Ella's conversion was VMH.

Couldn't find anything in my Royalty Digest, so either I imagined it or read it elsewhere. I just find it hard to believe that some referred to as the amiables(along w/Henry) would be thought of as bossy.

Plus with GDM memories, not that I think she is lying, but they are written of an arranged bad marriage from 20 odd years later. Had that marriage been successful, I doubt we would have heard of the Irene incident at all, or certainly in a different light. If that points to Irene being bossy, Ella must have been super bossy, engineering the marriage to begin with.  

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #184 on: February 06, 2006, 08:15:23 PM »
No...Ella arranged it as she wanted to see Marie well settled before she took the veil. Ella told her that she can make up her mind about it, but I doubt ed very much she would seriously mind had Marie "did an Alicky (interms of Eddy that was)". Marie was unsure, but went along. She hope to get out, but Irene butted in and stopped her from telling Ella "saying that it will kill her aunt" (that is what I call a busy body-how would she know this information will kill Ella ???). Ella later told Marie that Marie had she told her no, she would be cool about it. No..Ella was no super busy body...Irene certainly was !!!  >:(

Offline Keith

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #185 on: February 07, 2006, 08:09:47 PM »
I don't know I would agree that one incident makes a person a super busy body.

In her book, Marie states when she talked about the incident years later to Ella, she said if she had known about the Irene incident she wouldn't have forced Marie to marry.

Marie then says perhaps. So, she wasn't neccesarily buying it that Ella would have acted any different.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Keith »

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #186 on: February 08, 2006, 01:33:08 AM »
Well...Marie was termed "to be self-willed and selfish, and rather difficult to deal with" by her Aunt Minny (Greek Minny), so I think in this Marie was a bit unjust to Ella. One has to remember by the time of the marriage, Ella and Marie was said to have reconciled (after Uncle Serge's death, Ella asked Marie's forgiveness for her cold attitute). So why would Ella forced Marie to a marriage she totally disliked ? No...I don't buy that at all. In fact, Ella did her a bit favour by allied her with the Swedish Royal House (one of the most stable in Europe). When later Marie was hard up, it was her Swedish Father-in-law who helped her out with cash.

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #187 on: February 08, 2006, 07:22:45 AM »
I think I remember reading that Marie was not very flattering about Ella in her memoirs?
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #188 on: February 08, 2006, 08:50:32 AM »
No she wasn't, not really until the end. In regards to her marriage Marie herself wrote to William during their engagement that 'we will be able to travel together and to live just as we wish and to suit ourselves. I'm looking forward to a wonderful life--a life full of love and happiness, just as you described to me in your last letters.' So she doesn't seem like she was that opposed as she made out in her memoirs--most likely it was when she found out that she would have less freedom in Sweden that her views soured.

Why do you think Marie (who didn't pull any punches and often cast herself as the victim) didn't mention Irene's involvement in the marriage?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by grandduchessella »
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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #189 on: February 08, 2006, 07:35:52 PM »
But she did wrote about Irene's role in her memoirs !  ??? Another thing that I didn't like about Irene was the heartlessness that she cut her son and grandson out of her will. It was more like you do it my way or you are out. Barbara was in because she did what Irene said-keep me company. Barbara was spoiled by her grandmother so much so that when her mother, Anges of Saxe-Altenburg came to visit her from Costa Rica, she was not kind to her. I though "Irene" mean peace, but in her case...Not. >:(

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #190 on: February 08, 2006, 09:04:25 PM »
You're right--she did. My mistake.  :-[  I went and got both volumes down and it's in Education of a Princess.

She also states that Ella was apparently unaware of this and when, years later, she informed her of Irene's role, Ella promised her she never would've sanctioned the behavior.

I still don't always know what all is exaggerated in Marie's memoirs but the story is in there.
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kayekaye

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #191 on: February 09, 2006, 08:10:01 AM »
Financial settlements and provisions aren't always an accurate reflection of family relationships, and when they are, we can't always know exactly what precipitated such decisions.

A real example: A sister (with no children) is the sole beneficiary of a  parent's will. Her brother (with two) is left nothing. During their parent's serious illness, the sister was there for the mother whereas the brother stopped calling and 'disappeared' until the crisis was over. This isn't the reason for the will's provisions, though. Why? The brother has substantial assets which he built using loans from both the parent and sister - which he has never paid a penny back. This was always kept quiet in order to preserve his dignity. If something was to happen to his assets, provision would be made for his children, but as the will stands, only the sister inherits.
To outsiders it seems that the illness breach is the reason behind all this but it isn't. It simply is that the brother has £ of his own - and his sister's inheritance will redress the balance of how he acquired that money.

Family finances are minefields - just look at GVI and EVIII. Irene's motivations may have been justified or not - can we ever really know, or judge ?

Offline Keith

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #192 on: February 09, 2006, 02:01:29 PM »
I still like Irene.

As to cutting someone out of your will, while I don't think a will should be used as be nice to me or you get nothing, the bottom line is it was Irene's money/property to do with as she pleased. Why do children/grandchildren at a certain stage start to look at their parents as how much money/property they can get from them when they die? How about going out and earning your own. Afterall, there is the old 3 sides to every story. Yours, theirs, and the reality of the situation, which does not always agree with how sides A or B like to present the situation.

Anyway, does anyone know if Prince Philip ever mentioned any impressions of Irene? I'm assuming at sometime he met her, although it may have only been before WWII.  

Have to see if the book on VMH sheds anymore insight to Irene.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #193 on: February 09, 2006, 03:30:00 PM »
Can't wait for the VMH book!

I agree that there is probably more to the will situation. I've said before who knows what went on--Sigismund and his son were both apparently content to stay in Costa Rica. It would make sense for inheritance sense to leave the property to the person who was living in Germany. Who knows?

It reminds me of a phras I heard once--'It's not your inheritance, it's my money.'
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kayekaye

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #194 on: February 09, 2006, 04:20:07 PM »
Quote

Anyway, does anyone know if Prince Philip ever mentioned any impressions of Irene? I'm assuming at sometime he met her, although it may have only been before WWII.  



When not at school, Philip stayed with various relatives (this was whilst Alice was in the clinic and Andrea in France). He spent at least one summer holiday at Hemmelmark with Irene - I've seen photos of him taken there. I'm fairly sure he also visited her with his mother as a young child too.
Philip is reluctant to discuss most aspects of his early family life and I've not come across any mention of Irene by him. However if there is anything someone here will know of it for you!