Author Topic: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets  (Read 92653 times)

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helenazar

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2005, 12:47:09 PM »
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How does she portray Elizabeth, Helen?


It's really sickening actually. Throughout the whole book, it's about how Elizabeth can't really do anything because she is a young woman alone - no father no husband - poor thing! In this book, she is as bad as Amy Robsart, who is a really annoying character. And then Cecil always keeps lecturing her how she should  rule her country like a man  and Elizabeth goes : But I can't! I'm not a man, I am oly a woman alone - how can I rule the country? And she is always lamenting her " single state" and constantly pressuring Dudley to divorce his wife and marry her  ???.

And saying to Dudley all the time how she basically just always wants to lay down and die when he is not around. Please, give me a break...  ::) It's like one of those really bad romance novels, but even worse. And basically you can tell that the author tries to convey a message that a woman could not really rule unless she had some guy behind her telling her what to do. Basically the complete opposite of what Elizabeth really was about...  :P


helenazar

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #76 on: November 10, 2005, 12:47:59 PM »
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Yes Hans Holbein was the real love of her life (only he could see her true inner beauty.....). Too bad he died of the plague.


Yep, thanks, that's the one. Hated it... I mean, come on.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #77 on: November 10, 2005, 12:52:39 PM »
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It's really sickening actually. Throughout the whole book, it's about how Elizabeth can't really do anything because she is a young woman alone - no father no husband - poor thing! In this book, she is as bad as Amy Robsart, who is a really annoying character. And then Cecil always keeps lecturing her how she should  rule her country like a man  and Elizabeth goes : But I can't! I'm not a man, I am oly a woman alone - how can I rule the country? And she is always lamenting her " single state" and constantly pressuring Dudley to divorce his wife and marry her  ???.

And saying to Dudley all the time how she basically just always wants to lay down and die when he is not around. Please, give me a break...  ::) It's like one of those really bad romance novels, but even worse. And basically you can tell that the author tries to convey a message that a woman could not really rule unless she had some guy behind her telling her what to do. Basically the complete opposite of what Elizabeth really was about...  :P



Thanks. Ugh, you'd swear it was written by some male chauvinist, by the sound of it . . . Legacy is a much better potrayel of Elizabeth.

BTW, anyone read either 'When Christ and His Saints Slept' or 'Time and Chance' by Sharon Penman? I'm thinking of buying them and would appreciate a recommendations!  :) I recently read one of Penman's historical murder mysteries - 'The Queen's Man-. The Queen in question is Eleanor of Aquitaine. Quite a good book.  :)
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helenazar

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #78 on: November 10, 2005, 01:05:47 PM »
I find that really good historical fiction is pretty rare... One author I really like is Jean Plaidy, whose historical fiction is well researched and well written and she doesn't tend to "fantisize" too much. She wrote a whole slew of serial historical fiction about the Tudors and all very good. Unfortunately, often her books end up with romance novel - like covers, which is too bad because what's inside is very good quaility stuff. But I don't think the author has too much control over what's on the cover. Besides, she is dead. But she did write a lot about a whole slew of British royalty, strating with the Platangenets and ending with the Hanoverians... Highly recommended.

Another one I really like is Edward Rutherfurd, even though he doesn't write about royalty specifically but more like epic history, royalty pops up once in a while,  the rest of the characters are fictional but wonderfully developed! His best two, IMO, are London and Russka.  London covers the Tudor era of course, among other eras, and Henry VIII and Elizabeth and Mary, make cameo appearances... Good stuff.

Sorry, PL, I didn't read those two books you mention.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by helenazar »

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2005, 01:08:09 PM »
Don't worry bout it Helen.  :) When Christ and His Saints slept concentrates on the English civil war between King Stephen and his cousin Empress Matilda, with Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine entering the frame in the end. Time and Chance is exclusively about Henry and Eleanor, and the trilogy is to culminate with another book sometime.

A word about Jean Plaidy - I liked two ones about QV: 'Victoria in the Wings' and 'Victoria Victorious' but I read some on the Tudors and Stuarts and just find them a bit . . . bland, I suppose, and old fashioned.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Prince_Lieven »
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

helenazar

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2005, 01:12:13 PM »
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I read some on the Tudors and Stuarts and just find them a bit . . . bland, I suppose, and old fashioned.

I liked them that way because it seemed more authentic. Her novels almost read like non-fiction in a way, only with a dialogue among the characters. P. Gregory is the one who tries to "update" her fiction, and that's when you end up with a mess!

I guess I just don't like any kind of personal "elaboration" on the part of the author, just give me the facts of what happened! I don't know why I even read fiction - I should just stick with non-fiction!   ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by helenazar »

bell_the_cat

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2005, 01:17:00 PM »
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Don't worry bout it Helen.  :) When Christ and His Saints slept concentrates on the English civil war between King Stephen and his cousin Empress Matilda, with Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine entering the frame in the end. Time and Chance is exclusively about Henry and Eleanor, and the trilogy is to culminate with another book sometime.

A word about Jean Plaidy - I liked two ones about QV: 'Victoria in the Wings' and 'Victoria Victorious' but I read some on the Tudors and Stuarts and just find them a bit . . . bland, I suppose, and old fashioned.


I found Jean Plaidy better on the foreign monarchs. The Ferdinand and Isabella trilogy was excellent: Spain for the Sovereigns, The something and the Pomegranate (Guitar? :-/) and Daughters of Spain.The titles alone made you want to read them.

Under the name Victoria Holt, she also wrote "The Queen's Confession" -  a fictional autobiography of Marie Antoinette!

helenazar

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2005, 01:19:20 PM »
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Under the name Victoria Holt, she also wrote "The Queen's Confession" -  a fictional autobiography of Marie Antoinette!


I read that too, it wasn't too bad, although I like her British ones better, where she doesn't write from first person perspective. I never read Isabella and Ferdinand trilogy, I think it's out of print?

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2005, 01:23:33 PM »
Victoria Victorious is from the first person - it reads like a diary I think.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

helenazar

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2005, 01:46:49 PM »
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Victoria Victorious is from the first person - it reads like a diary I think.


Yeah, that's just like the Marie Antoinette one... I generally don't ike this type of thing as the authors tend to end up taking too many liberties with the story. I like historical fiction to be as close to known historical facts as possible. I know, it's really boring and dry, but I tend to lose interest when I realize that something is the author's conjecture. This is why I say I should probably just stick with non-fiction!  ;)

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2005, 02:00:24 PM »
I understand you Helen. But I also realise when the author has to make up a minor event or character if it is neccessary - in the Sunne in Splendour, only 5 characters in the whole book are made up, all pretty minor. Most impressive, IMO.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #86 on: November 11, 2005, 02:19:40 AM »
I read My Lady of Cleves before I reached teenage years ( printed by Caxton ;D) and I really enjoyed it then. As for Jean Plaidy...again, pre teenage but her best IMO was her trilogy about Catherine De Medici. Another set of Tudor books from my dim and distant past were written by Norah Lofts..."The Lute Player" etc. Romanticised for sure but I think she knocked spots off Ms. Gregory.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #87 on: November 11, 2005, 07:36:09 AM »
OK here is a little something to make Helen dash out to her local bookstore....NOT ;D
The Constant Princess; by Philippa Gregory... A novel about Katherine of Aragon. " Philippa Gregory gives us a very different version of the pious middle-aged wife. Her Katherine is sexy, politically astute and ambitious. Henry VII feels desire pulse in his groin when he first sees his prospective daughter-in-law----- this ripe little beauty." According to Gregory'Katherine lies about the non-consumation of her marriage to Arthur,and enjoys "steamy nights of passion" with him.She throws herself into the role of ruler, marching into battle in full armour :o. According to the write-up in the Mail today "As always, Gregory's research is impeccable" Egad and gadzooks ;D
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helenazar

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #88 on: November 11, 2005, 08:25:42 AM »
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A novel about Katherine of Aragon. " Philippa Gregory gives us a very different version of the pious middle-aged wife. Her Katherine is sexy, politically astute and ambitious. Henry VII feels desire pulse in his groin when he first sees his prospective daughter-in-law----- this ripe little beauty." According to Gregory'Katherine lies about the non-consumation of her marriage to Arthur,and enjoys "steamy nights of passion" with him.She throws herself into the role of ruler, marching into battle in full armour :o. According to the write-up in the Mail today "As always, Gregory's research is impeccable" Egad and gadzooks ;D



Why am I not surprised!  :P  ;)

elena_maria_vidal

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Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
« Reply #89 on: November 11, 2005, 08:55:52 AM »
I always thought Anya Seton's "Katharine" was one of the best historical novels about that era that I ever read. And I am VERY picky!