Author Topic: Eleanor of Castile  (Read 12044 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2006, 12:44:21 PM »
Yes, I agree too - and ilyala, I've heard that story too!  :)
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2006, 01:30:39 PM »
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Yes but what is history without a bit of controversy......or a red hot poker ;) ;D ;D ;D


There's still Edmund Ironside d 1017, the king who was murdered while on the toilet by a soldier concealed under the seat with a sword!  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2006, 01:41:24 PM »
OMG worst nightmare or what ;D Thanks Bell,I'll remember that next time I "go" 8)
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ilyala

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2006, 05:30:41 PM »
i'll do a full scan of the toilets from now on :o

Alianore

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2006, 02:47:08 AM »
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not really related to this but i read somewhere that while on crusade, edward received the news of the death of a son of his... apparently he took it very easily and king louis ix (st. louis) asked him why and why he seemed more preocupied with his father's (henry iii) health and he said very coldly something like: 'you can always conceive another son but you only have one father.'

the author of the book where i read that noted how ironical it was that all his 3 older sons died so young. compared to that line.

also, apparently edward had a great relationship with both his parents (henry iii and eleanor of provence) but was a not so good father himself...


Totally agree with that last point, ilyala.  Apparently when Edward I's second son Henry was dying, he and Eleanor didn't even bother to ride from London to Guildford to see him.   ???   And he mostly ignored the future Edward II.  It seems to me though that Edward I had a much better relationship with his daughters than his sons - I suppose because they weren't his heirs in the same way, so his expectations weren't so high?

ilyala

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2006, 04:06:59 AM »
did he at least have a good relationship with his daughters, then?

Alianore

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2006, 05:51:49 AM »
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did he at least have a good relationship with his daughters, then?


Having written that, I can now only think of times when he clearly wasn't getting on with his daughters, hehehe.  Like the time he ripped his daughter Elizabeth's coronet off her head and threw it in the fire (and had to pay to replace it) or when he was furious with Joan for marrying Ralph de Monthermer when he was trying to arrange her marriage to the Count of Savoy.  But I'm sure I'm right...I just can't think of any examples offhand!   ::) ::)  Hmm, get my thinking cap on....He seems to have been very indulgent of his eldest daughter Eleanor - and for some reason, she didn't marry till 1293, when she was 24, later than her next 2 sisters who both married in 1290.  Joan was 18 then, also fairly old to marry. The king fined her and her husband for leaving Court without his permission. Margaret and her husband were both 15 at the time of their wedding, but John of Brabant wasn't allowed to take his wife back to the Low Countries till 1297, when they were 22, and in 1293 he still wasn't living with Margaret.  Edward's youngest daughter Elizabeth was married at 14 and a half in early 1297, but her husband the Count of Holland had to write begging letters to the king to let Elizabeth leave England.  All this seems to indicate he was reluctant to let his daughters go.  I'm sure there are other examples too - he gave them lots of gifts, and was very generous to the messengers who brought him news of their children.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2006, 06:24:29 AM »
Thanks Alianore, this is all new to me!  :D

Maybe he indulged Eleanor because she was his first child?  ???
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

ilyala

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2006, 08:56:12 AM »
sounds like a typical girls' dad to me :P... although the total indifference to his sons really makes no sense...

bell_the_cat

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2006, 12:07:19 PM »
Did Edward II have a favourite sister? I believe he got on well with his younger half-brothers.

Alianore

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2006, 12:27:24 PM »
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Thanks Alianore, this is all new to me!  :D

Maybe he indulged Eleanor because she was his first child?  ???


You're welcome!   ;)

I think that's quite likely - Edward III was also very indulgent of his eldest daughter Isabel (b 1332).  She didn't marry till she was well into her thirties, about 20 years later than you'd expect!

About bell's questions: I believe Joan of Acre was his favourite sister.  She was 12 years older and might have been very maternal, and she never left England.  Edward later showed a lot of favour to her eldest daughter Alianore de Clare, long before her husband Despenser became his favourite.  His sisters Joan, Elizabeth and Mary (the nun) were all very supportive of him when his father cut off his income after a huge row between them in 1305.  (Eleanor was dead by then and Margaret was in Brabant).  It seems that the affection was mutual.

About Ed's half-brothers: I'm not really sure if they were that close - there aren't many records showing that he sent them gifts or visited them often, for example.  He did pay the messenger who brought news of the elder one's birth a huge sum of money. The age difference was enormous, really, and by the time they were old enough to be useful to him politically around 1320, Despenser was well ensconsed (sp?) in the royal favour, which marginalised them.  Don't forget, Kent (the younger one) invaded England in 1326 with Isabella and Mortimer, and Norfolk joined them immediately.  (They might have only been trying to topple the Despensers, not their brother, of course, but it was still rebellion against him.)  As usual it's impossible to be sure, but my feeling has always been they weren't particularly close.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2006, 12:35:13 PM »
Thanks again Alianore! :D

How did Edward get on with his stepmother, Marguerite? She must have been close to him in age!
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2006, 12:40:12 PM »
Thanks for the info Alianore! I can be thankful to Joan's daughter Elizabeth, as she founded a college I went to!
Elizabeth de Clare was another member of the royal family who supported Isabella's invasion apparently.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »

Alianore

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2006, 12:41:24 PM »
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Thanks again Alianore! :D

How did Edward get on with his stepmother, Marguerite? She must have been close to him in age!


No probs - all this useless info rattling around in my skull had to come in handy some day!   ;) ;D

Marg's DOB isn't known, but is assumed to be 1279-82, so she was between 2 and 5 years older than Ed2 and 40 to 43 years younger than her husband.   :P  It always used to be thought that they had a close relationship, but I'm not convinced.  In 1305 (see above) he wrote to his sister Elizabeth asking her to ask Marg. to intercede with his father, rather than asking her directly.  And after he became king, he gave a few of her manors to Piers, which didn't got down too well - Marg. apparently financed a lot of the baronial opposition to Piers, which must have been anathema to Ed.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Eleanor of Castile
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2006, 12:43:14 PM »
Wow, I had no idea!  :D Well, Margaret was very in love with Edward I, so she probably disliked Gaveston because Edward had. She was an interesting woman, IMO.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."