Author Topic: Granny Alina is Maria R.!  (Read 50239 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

lexi4

  • Guest
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2005, 01:28:12 PM »
As promised, info on Granny Alina from the book the Princess in the Family by Gabriel Louis Duval.
She was apparently married to a man named Frank who was about 37 years her senior.  In the  1930s they started a farrier business. In 1945 Frank died and Alina moved back to Verulam. She then hooked up with a Greek man named Harry Karadimas. The two shared a home. Harry died in 1953.
"There was no electricity in the evenings after dinner, so the familiy would gather around the kerosene lamp. Everyone would be in good spirits and Granny Alina would sing Russian lullabies and folksongs while we kept time by clapping. Sometimes she would tell us stories of her past and that is when I found out that she had been a Princess in Russia. She told us that the rest of her family had been murdered and that she was only survivior." (pp.24)
She died in 1969, but Duvall said that her burial was secret and unrecorded. Her grave was unmarked, but those close to her knew that she was buried next to Frank.  Duvall eventually got permission to exhume her remains and take them to Perth, where he was living at the time. Duvall took her remains to forensic experts at Monash University for dna testing. Here is what her says about the DNA testing: "In the end, it proved to be a disappointing venture. According to the reports, the Monash University team could not extract any DNA from the bones sue to the condition of the remains and advised that given the state of the skeleton, matrial could be contaminated after all this time. The remains were sent back to Perth a short time later..."
Later...
"The forensic scientist who had helped me so much initially, came to my assistance again. He helped my by preparing the bones for travel to the U.K. Alina's remains were sent to England a few weeks later for examination by Professor Andrew Chamberlain from the University of Sheffield and also by the Art in Medicine team from the University of Manchester. Both groups independently examined and tested the ifnormation available for a likeness to the Grand Duchess Anastasia." pp 52-53.
"The results I received from the U.K. deepened the mystery. They showed that Alina and Anastasia were not the same person. To complicate matters, the University's attempt to test the DNA had failed due to the remains being contaminated."
Apparently Chamberlain decided to use the technique of forensic facial reconstruction. The results showed that Alina's skull did not match Anastascia. However, the results did show that there was a fit between the skull of Alina and Marie. However, Chamberlain did NOT say the two were definitively the same person.

There is more...but those are the basics.  All of that being said, there is not way to be 99.9 percent certain that Alina was Marie without DNA testing. I don't know if any of her sons are still living, but it would seem that their DNA could be tested. As far as I know, this has not been done. Duval invested his life and finances in his quest to find out if Alina was Marie. From the way his book reads, he seems satisfied that the two were one in the same. But without DNA, I don't think any of the rest of us can share in his assurances. Or at least I can't.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by lexi4 »

Offline Margarita Markovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3809
  • Call me Ritka :)
    • View Profile
    • My Yahoo Group for OTMA! Join!
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2005, 07:50:44 PM »
She actually did say that she was a Russian Grand Duchess and that her family had been executed, but only to the family she was staying with.

But I agree that she isn't the GD.

Offline RealAnastasia

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1890
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2005, 08:31:29 PM »
Thank you for taking so much time to copy all this info for us to read, lexi4...

But as far as I know there IS really some problem with males and DNA. I don't know exactly which one. But I'm sure of it. And for I have a case in my own family. My cousin wanted to pass a DNA test, for one time, her father shout out to her that she wasn't really his daughter. She always had doubts about her identity. So, her brother said he could test her with him, along to see if they shared their DNA. But in the laboratory, doctors said seriously that his DNA wouldn't work. They must use a female tissue. It would work better. Now, my cousin  will perform her test with her sister tissues to compare both DNA.

I don't know if Granny Alena was Maria or not (I'm not a woman that would said "She was not Maria" (or Anastasia in other claimants cases) or "I'm completely sure she was Maria" . I'm not really sure. So, I never said "Yes" or "No". My favorite word is "perhaps"

RealAnastasia.


Finelly

  • Guest
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2005, 09:00:44 PM »
RealAna - yes, if your cousin wanted to find out who her father was, then the mitochondrial dna results would be meaningless.  They would only confirm who her mother is.

Alina passed on her dna, mitochondrial dna, to her sons.  They could carry it.  A test of their dna would show what HER and THEIR mitochondrial dna was, as well as what their nuclear dna was (from dad).  The latter wouldn't be important.

When the Romanov dna was tested, Prince Phillip, a male, submitted a sample of HIS blood, because he and the Romanov children and Alexandra shared a common female ancestress, and thus mitochondrial dna.  

Offline RealAnastasia

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1890
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2005, 09:35:40 PM »
Thank you for the info, Finelly! Now, it makes sense to me!

RealAnastasia.

Finelly

  • Guest
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2005, 09:36:48 PM »
 ;)

lexi4

  • Guest
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2005, 09:52:13 PM »
You are welcome RealAnastascia. I am glad you found it helpful.

Offline Georgiy

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2024
  • Slava v vyshnikh Bogu
    • View Profile
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2005, 05:35:31 PM »
Since Yurovsky told his story in 1930 or so, his version of events is certainly older than Granny Alina's.

Also a princess is not the rank that Grand Duchess Maria had. She may well have been a princess or even just of the nobility. Large numbers of Russian families met the same fate as the Romanovs after the revolution don't forget, so her story may even be more-or-less true in that she was a Russian aristocrat and her family were killed. As far as I know she did not say "I am Maria Romanova."

Offline RealAnastasia

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1890
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2005, 07:42:16 PM »
Exactly, Georgiy. I was thinking exactly the same.

RealAnastasia

Offline Margarita Markovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3809
  • Call me Ritka :)
    • View Profile
    • My Yahoo Group for OTMA! Join!
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2005, 08:05:00 PM »
Is it possible that she was related to the Romanovs, hence the similarity in the features, but not Maria?

Offline Robby

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 916
    • View Profile
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2005, 04:11:02 AM »
Could it by possible then that Granny Alina was some else nobilty how had died (maybe a little bit stupid)?
“Courage! I have shown it for years; think you I shall lose it at the moment when my sufferings are to end?” Marie Antoinette

Offline Robby

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 916
    • View Profile
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2005, 04:16:56 AM »
i'm am thinking that the case is a fraud... :'(and this was the only story i believed...Now my hope fore the surviving maria is gone...Thank you all fore updating me!
“Courage! I have shown it for years; think you I shall lose it at the moment when my sufferings are to end?” Marie Antoinette

Offline Margarita Markovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3809
  • Call me Ritka :)
    • View Profile
    • My Yahoo Group for OTMA! Join!
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2005, 10:07:11 AM »
Don't lose hope. There's always a chance.

etonexile

  • Guest
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2005, 05:17:02 PM »
That dreaded DNA just takes allll the fun out of the bogus IF business....pshaw.... :P

Offline Margarita Markovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3809
  • Call me Ritka :)
    • View Profile
    • My Yahoo Group for OTMA! Join!
Re: Granny Alina is Maria R.!
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2005, 06:16:54 PM »
The only DNA tests I pay attention to are the ones for Anna Anderson because I so strongly believe she is a fraud.  ;)