Author Topic: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower  (Read 78145 times)

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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #120 on: March 25, 2007, 07:32:20 AM »
He is certainly my top candidate for the deed. (Don't forget Margaret Beaufort is also in the frame for it ;) )
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Offline FaithWhiteRose

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #121 on: April 11, 2007, 06:31:42 PM »
MARGARET BEAUFORT or BUCKINGHAM

That's my 2 cents, as I have mentioned before.

I was thinking that, and Thomas Stanley.

Offline FaithWhiteRose

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #122 on: April 11, 2007, 06:46:46 PM »
My two great lost causes come together on one board --- Richard III and Anna Andersen!

The discovery of the children's bodies in the Tower combined with the fact that they were never seen after 1483 seems to point the finger at Richard III. If he didn't actually have them killed, he would have had to be complicit after the fact. Does anyone think that Elizabeth of York would have forgiven Henry Tudor for murdering her brothers? And Henry himself was careful not to claim the throne on the basis of his wife's bloodline. There was precedent in England for winning the crown through combat.

There is a portrait of Richard III hanging in my living room, though. So part of me will always want to believe in his innocence!

Richard III is the most likely suspect but in this world the unlikely can astonishingly be the truth . . . I agree! But not only that, Henry Pole's(related to Margaret Pole) body might have been Richard of York's body. Because some say, Richard III's supposed son, Richard of Eastwell was his nephew---Richard, Duke of York. I can't say I believe that but no one really knew who Richard of Eastwell was . . .

Offline Mari

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #123 on: May 16, 2007, 04:17:54 AM »
I think of all the threads this one is so interesting and everyone did such a good job with quotes and thought provoking remarks. I found something I will try and throw a link to just to add a little. This goes into really interesting detail about the murders of the two little Princes and I hope the DNA test will be published so We can know the results of the bones found. This piece tells exactly why the Princes were found in the location they were.

www.luminarium.org/encyclopedia/woodville.htm

mari   

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #124 on: May 16, 2007, 07:05:31 AM »
Uh huh! Agnes Strickland (and Thomas More) as a source. 8)
Here, this is interesting;
http://www.richardiii.net/
"Click" on "Richard III", (just under his portrait).
Then "Click" on the Controversy, and then- Richard and the Princes.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 07:12:48 AM by Kimberly »
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #125 on: May 25, 2007, 02:06:32 AM »
This was in one of our...ahem...tackier red tops today;
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007240084,00.html
I presume he means Richard of Eastwell.
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Offline Mari

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #126 on: May 25, 2007, 02:39:41 AM »
Gosh, I wish I knew what  the Historian  Mr. Baldwin based this on ??? ???  why in the world would he end up a Bricklayer? ???

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #127 on: May 25, 2007, 07:35:29 AM »
« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 07:39:33 AM by Kimberly »
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Offline Kristina

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #128 on: May 25, 2007, 07:46:02 AM »
Today's Daily Mail covers the story as well.  David Baldwin believes that the older Prince, Edward V died in the Tower of natural causes, whilst Richard Duke of York was eventually reunited with his mother Queen Elizabeth Woodville and allowed to live with her, under supervision of trusted courtiers. He was then later moved to Lutterworth in Leicestershire and to St John's Abbey, Colchester after the Battle of Bosworth Field...

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #129 on: May 25, 2007, 09:04:48 AM »
Thanks for that Kristina.  Don't know about the reunited  and living with Elizabeth Woodville bit though. I wonder of there is ANY evidence of that. I am sure that if Henry Tudor had an inkling about this he would have had the lad's head off or dispatched him in secret.  ???
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Offline Kurt Steiner

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #130 on: May 26, 2007, 03:59:02 AM »
Today's Daily Mail covers the story as well.  David Baldwin believes that the older Prince, Edward V died in the Tower of natural causes, whilst Richard Duke of York was eventually reunited with his mother Queen Elizabeth Woodville and allowed to live with her, under supervision of trusted courtiers. He was then later moved to Lutterworth in Leicestershire and to St John's Abbey, Colchester after the Battle of Bosworth Field...

And what happened to Richard after Bosworth? ???

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #131 on: May 27, 2007, 05:18:54 AM »
My bet is that he lived quietly in Colchester, not once contacting his mother or his sisters. He would then change his name to Baldwin, before having several children......... ::)
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Mari

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #132 on: May 29, 2007, 05:43:56 AM »
after Bosworth for Richard of Eastwell...

Richard Plantagenet was a bricklayer or stonemason, employed by Walter's son, Sir Thomas, on the rebuilding of Eastwell Manor. Mee states: "… Sir Thomas Moyle, building his great house here, was much struck by a white-bearded man his mates called Richard. There was a mystery about him. In the rest hour, whilst the others talked and threw dice, this old man would go apart and read a book. There were very few working men who could read in 1545, and Sir Thomas on this fine morning did not rest till he had won the confidence of the man …" It is said the book Richard was reading was in Latin, which was a language reserved for the highborn. The mason told Sir Thomas he was brought up by a schoolmaster. "From time to time, a gentleman came who paid for his food and school, and asked many questions to discover if he were well cared for," wrote Mee. Richard went on to describe being taken to Bosworth Field and meeting his father for the first time. The king said: "I am your father, and if I prevail in tomorrow's battle, I will provide for you as befits your blood. But it may be that I shall be defeated, killed, and that I shall not see you again … Tell no one who you are unless I am victorious." When the battle was lost, Richard Plantagenet chose a simple trade in which to lose his identity and had thus come to work at Eastwell Manor. According to Mee: "Sir Thomas Moyle, listening to this wonderful story, determined that the last Plantagenet should not want in his old age. He had a little house built for him in the Park (which is still standing) and instructed his steward to provide for it every day."
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according to annother source he only lived three or four years after the conversation with Sir Thomas.  If this was the acknowledged third illegitimate child of Richard III I think the other certain older Son by a mistress would have been in greater danger than this Richard of Eastwell. But I wonder if Henry VII would have bothered either of the Illicit Sons? I mean would either of them really have had access to support of any kind?  ???

Offline Mari

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Re: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower
« Reply #133 on: May 29, 2007, 05:54:08 AM »
O.K. scratch that apparently the oldest Son was executed by Henry VII....but I haven't been able to find out on what grounds? I mean as far removed as he would have been from the Royal Court what could he have done to faill out of favour?? ???