Author Topic: Mary Boleyn's children  (Read 57702 times)

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elena_maria_vidal

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #150 on: February 03, 2006, 10:11:20 AM »
I think the problem with Katherine Howard was that the previous relationship implied she had a previous betrothal/ contract which then further implied all kinds of things about the validity of her marriage with Henry. I don't completely understand why she had to be beheaded, poor girl.

helenazar

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #151 on: February 03, 2006, 10:21:05 AM »
If I remember correctly, during his "interrogation" of Catherine H, Archbishop Cranmer tried to save her from being executed for treason by getting her to admit that she was precontracted to Derham, therefore not legally married to Henry. But Catherine would not admit to it, whether it was due to simplemindedness or vanity (she did not want to admit that she was never Queen of England), is unclear. She had the chance to save herself and she did not take it... She may also have been in huge denial about the fact that Henry will actually go through with executing her, because she was so sure of his love for her.

But then again, I think that her cousin Anne had signed something before her death, which invalidated her marriage to Henry, in hopes to be saved from execution, but that didn't save her either, so it may not have mattered for Catherine either. Rather sad.

But we digress again! (I suppose there is really not much more that can be said about Mary Boleyn's children... )
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by helenazar »

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #152 on: February 03, 2006, 10:44:32 AM »
Anne and Henry's marriage was dissolved on 16th May 1536 I believe
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ilyala

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #153 on: February 04, 2006, 05:20:07 AM »
yes, i always found it strange that henry went through a lot of effort to anull his marriage to anne when he was going to kill her anyway....

as for catherine... there was indeed a precontract, however that was not the problem... first, a woman (i think) went to cranmer (who went to henry) to tell him about catherine's behaviour when she was a teenager. apparently while she lived in her aunt's house she wasn't very... proper... it is believed that she lost her virginity very young, and she wasn't even engaged. after that there was her contract with derham, but i believe it wasn't exactly official, they just talked to each other, i don't believe there was a full agreement yet. and it is believed that she slept with him too. when henry found out all that he decided to send her to the convent and anull the marriage. however, before he got the chance to do that, he found out about thomas culpeper, who, unlike the others, had happened during katherine's marriage to henry. and that's when he decided to execute her.

BethLippe

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #154 on: May 19, 2010, 02:16:30 PM »
I did some research and discovered I am the 14th granddaughter of Mary Boleyn, through her daughter Mary Carey. I have the whole thing mapped out. It's a direct bloodline, going from Mary to my dad.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #155 on: May 19, 2010, 02:52:02 PM »
Maybe I'm wrong, it's been a while since I've looked at this subject, but didn't Mary Boleyn only have two children - Catherine and Henry Carey?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #156 on: May 19, 2010, 03:13:11 PM »
Response to Post # 154:  Since you have already "mapped it out" (I presume that you mean a genealogical chart), please post the first few lines of "direct" descent, with basic dates. Genealogy can be incredibly complex. Thanks!   AP
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 03:39:21 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Constantinople

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #157 on: May 19, 2010, 07:40:54 PM »
I did some research and discovered I am the 14th granddaughter of Mary Boleyn, through her daughter Mary Carey. I have the whole thing mapped out. It's a direct bloodline, going from Mary to my dad.
Well hold onto  your head

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #158 on: May 21, 2010, 10:46:10 PM »
Follow-up response to Reply # 155:  Attention "Prince Lieven":  From my meager knowledge, you are correct on the children of Mary Boelyn: Henry and Catherine.  Hopefully this "14th granddaugter in the direct line," from Mary Boelyn (see Reply # 154, May 19, 2010) will respond to my query # 156 of the same date , and easily provide us both a few beginning direct, documented generations of descent with dates for us to peruse, since she says that she has ALREADY "mapped it out."  It will be interesting, I feel!  If no response is forthcoming, then we can consider the old truism:  "No answer IS an answer."  Moving right along ............     Best regards, AP.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 11:02:39 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Lady Nikolaievna

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #159 on: July 23, 2010, 10:30:59 PM »
Anne and Henry's marriage was dissolved on 16th May 1536 I believe

It was 14 May according to Wikipedia :)

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #160 on: July 24, 2010, 01:04:30 PM »
Ummmm Wikipedia !!!
 Starkey puts the dissolving of the marriage as the 16th of May.
According to the discussion between Kingston and Henry, Cranmer had visited Anne in the Tower "on this day with the Queen" (ie 16th May). Cranmer hadnot gone to hear her confession at this point but to pronounce the divorce between Anne and Henry. (page 580-581. Starkey.. Six Wives).
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Lady Nikolaievna

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #161 on: July 24, 2010, 01:16:55 PM »
I'm sorry, I know it's not a good source. But as George Boleyn's execution happened in 17th May, I though the dissolution of Anne's marriage had been at least two days before that, that's why I believed in this source. Now I know that's not right, and I apologize.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #162 on: July 24, 2010, 01:28:04 PM »
Don't apologise....whats a couple of days between friends. At least you made me get off my backside and pull some books off the shelf.
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Lady Nikolaievna

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #163 on: July 24, 2010, 01:33:09 PM »
Ok then. Thank you for the informations, by the way... now back to topic, right? ;)

Velasco

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Re: Mary Boleyn's children
« Reply #164 on: September 15, 2010, 01:11:42 PM »
Henry was adamant that 1) he had to have Anne and 2) Anne would give him the male heir he so desperately needed. As such, he may have felt that he could 'afford' to not recognise Henry Carey (unlike Henry FitzRoy) since Anne was about to give him a healthy, unquestionably legitimate male heir - to recognise Henry Carey would be to officialise, in a way, his relationship with Mary Boleyn, and thus render his marriage to Anne questionable and make him a hypocrite (see: his divorce with Catherine of Aragon).

As for Elizabeth Howard, she gave her husband a child almost every year, so I'm guessing by 1509 or thereabouts she wasn't "all that". The rumours about her and Henry stretch back to the start of his reign, mainly because of the great favour her husband enjoyed at court. Thomas Boleyn was a popular courtier, highly educated, refined, ambitious, etc etc, the grandson of another influential courtier, the wealthy Earl of Ormonde, and he took active steps to furhter his daughters' education, so I don't think its too far-fetched to say Anne/Mary/George's charm etc came from their father rather than their mother.
Considering there was discussion between the Papacy and Henry about making Henry FitzRoy King of Ireland and marrying him to his half-sister the Princess Mary (in order to secure the succession), Catholic views on incest were quite different that what they are today: - 1) certain positions were deemed more sinful than certain combinations,  missionary with a half-brother being "less bad" than other positions with a non-relative and 2) Pope could grant dispensations for pretty much anything except descendant-ancestor marriages. Even so I think its very far-fetched and highly unlikely Henry and Elizabeth Howard ever had an affair.

Someone said Henry had very few mistresses...I'm pretty sure that was not the case. Lady Hastings, Bessie Blount, Mary Boleyn, Madge Shelton, Anne Basset, a flemish noblewoman whose dowry he promised to pay but then didn't (Yvonne, Yvette, something like that), plus the little harem he kept at a house called "Jericho" and possibly many others.