Author Topic: Anna of Cleves  (Read 60712 times)

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Adagietto

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2008, 02:46:22 AM »
Sibylle of Cleves, Anne's sister; do you think that Henry may perhaps got the wrong sister?


Offline Kimberly

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2008, 08:51:09 AM »
Its a lovely portrait isn't it. Luckily for her, she was already married (in 1526) and so, was out of reach of Henry.
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Mari

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #77 on: December 06, 2008, 03:02:07 AM »
Boy, if she looked anything like this portrait Henry might have been interested.

 I have always thought some of the remarks Henry made about Anne of Cleves physical appearance (once in England) to be cruel considering that from the portraits none of his Wives were great beauties to me. Of course charm has its own beauty and that cannot be conveyed a lot of the time through a Portrait.

Adagietto

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #78 on: December 06, 2008, 06:38:32 AM »
That portrait of her sister was made at the time of her marriage to the Elector of Saxony, who seems to have been a nicer man than Henry. It is often difficult to tell what people - and especially women - looked like from the portraits of the time because their features were so often stylized in different ways (Sibylle looks like a Cranach Venus!); but Holbein really does seem to have portrayed people exactly as they looked, and I would be surprised if his portrayal of Anne was inaccurate.

Selencia

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #79 on: January 28, 2009, 04:45:48 PM »
I've always argued that Anne of Cleves was the prettiest of Henry's wives, and a few of them, most notably Jane Seymour, were downright butt ugly.Anne is not my favorite because it is too hard to compete with Anne Boleyn. She definitely was the most well off, it could be a tie between her and Catherine Parr but Catherine wasn't extremely happy by the time of her death because she was married to a lying bastard llike Thomas Seymour.
As for Sybille, it may just be me but that is not a very attractive picture imo. She looks so odd especially in the face. There is another picture of Anne where she is facting side ways and I still think she is very charming.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 04:47:47 PM by Selencia »

alixaannencova

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2009, 06:14:32 PM »
I have heard it frequently argued that contemporary standards of what is regarded as beauty, are very different to those standards used in the sixteenth century!

I think that Anne and Catherine of Aragon would probably be regarded as the most physically attractive of Henry's wives by today's standards. That is IMHO anyway!

I wish we had more data about Anne of Cleves and often ponder whether the purported portrait of Amelia will ever surface one day! I know there is a sketch that may be her, but ho-hum I do wonder!

I understand that Anne's income seems to have been radically reduced after Henry's death! I wonder why! I always thought she had a very comfy life with 3,000 a year or something like anyway!

 

Mari

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #81 on: March 13, 2009, 04:35:31 AM »
Quote
Described by the French ambassador, Charles de Marillac, as tall and thin, "of middling beauty, with a determined and resolute countenance." She was dark haired, with a rather swarthy complexion, appeared solemn by English standards, and she looked old for her age. She had a full face, high forehead, brown, heavy-lidded eyes, a long, slightly bulbous nose, and a pointed chin.
Though unfairly characterized by many as Henry's "ugly wife" because of his dismissal of her, Anne of Cleves was considered by many to be as handsome as other women. It may have been her shyness, her awkwardness, and inability to speak English as well as her ungainly German fashions that affected Henry's perception of her.
Quote

and then on the King:

the king made certain comments regarding Anne's body and virtue which reveal him in a less than gentlemanly light. He told Anthony Denny, a member of the Privy Chamber, that she had 'breasts so slack and other parts of body in such sort that [he] somewhat suspected her virginity.' He further told his court physicians of the 'hanging of her breasts and looseness of her flesh.' Clearly, consummation of the marriage would not occur. The king bravely slept in the same bed at least every other night, yet he reported a month later that Anne 'was still as good a Maid.... as ever her Mother bare her.' This contradiction - she was not a virgin, yet was - was never mentioned.

What did Anne think of all this controversy?

Luckily for her, she had only a small knowledge of English and even less knowledge of the physical relationship between a man and wife. Her English ladies were astounded by her innocence. 'When he [Henry] comes to bed, he kisses me and taketh me by the hand, and biddeth me 'Goodnight, sweetheart,' and in the morning, kisses me, and biddeth me, 'Farewell, darling.' Is this not enough?' asked Anne. No, she was told emphatically, it most certainly was not.
Quote

I think Anne of Cleves was very wise in her dealings with Henry! It has been mentioned often that She may have been very unactracted to him also.

alixaannencova

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #82 on: March 13, 2009, 04:47:39 AM »
Thank you very much for the indulgence of quoting quotes Mari, it was truly generous of you to do so!

I often wonder that for all his lack of physical attraction to Anne, Henry did not find in her a woman to meet him as a match in so many other ways! She was probably intelligent and perhaps saw in Henry a man who would prove a better ally than her brother, had she returned to Cleves untouched! The very idea must have been horrifying at the time and would have sealed her fate thereafter surely?

I also often ponder why Anne appears to have lost so much of her divorce annuities in subsequent reigns and wonder why Henry did not secure them.....or did Anne personally relinquish some portion for the greater good of the exchequer perhaps?




alixaannencova

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #84 on: March 13, 2009, 05:17:35 AM »
I do not quite see how it could be Amelia as the sitter appears to be wearing a gown and head dress of the style favoured in England rather than in Cleves and the HRE at the time Holbein visited Dusseldorf and Berg. Unless there is a chance Amelia was pointedly encouraged to wear a panoply that would haven been familiar to Henry!!! But I think such a thing would have been documented somewhere in all likelihood!

It is a puzzle...which one day will perhaps be solved like those of the remaining lost tombs of the Pharaohs!



 

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #85 on: March 13, 2009, 10:58:08 AM »
Hi Toots, I think you need to scroll down and look at portrait number 5 (5 down from the top).
this lady is not wearing "traditional" English dress and is labelled as Anne of Cleves.
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alixaannencova

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #86 on: March 13, 2009, 04:02:48 PM »
Doh thank you Kimberly and sorry Mari...I am dippy sometimes!

Yes I can quite see which picture now and have read about it. It could be couldn't it? Considering the timing of execution and seeming origins of the sitter....if only we could magic up an answer!!!




Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #87 on: May 04, 2009, 07:39:56 PM »
Anna of Cleves




Offline Kimberly

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #88 on: May 05, 2009, 02:53:21 AM »
The second one down is Elizabeth, not Anne of Cleves.
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Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Anna of Cleves
« Reply #89 on: May 07, 2009, 01:33:46 PM »
Excuse me, I found it as Anne of Cleves :-(