Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon, the Catholic Monarchs and their family

[aron]

Garrett Mattingly's biography *Catherine of Aragon* (Boston: Little, Brown,
1941), p. 143, has this to say about Isabella the Catholic's family:

"Isabella not unluckier than most queens reared five [children], but lost at
least five others by stillbirth, late miscarriage, or death in early
infancy...."

This information was given to me by John Parmi Carsons

[aron]

I don't have the source anymore but i found a notice that Isabel also had miscarriage in 1490

[umigon]

Really? Never heard it before, but it could be very possible! It would be wonderful if someone could provide us with a complete list of Isabel's pregnancies, including of course those that are left. By the moment we have:

1. Isabel, 1470.

2. Miscarried son, 1475.

3. Juan, 1478.

4. Juana, 1479.

5. María and a stillborn twin sister, 1482.

6. Catalina, 1485.

7. Another miscarriage (what sex?), 1490.

[aron]

from
www.setenil.com/historia.htm
San Sebastián.

   En el tiempo en que los RRCC tomaban Setenil, o, poco después, alrededor del año 1484, se dice que la Reina Isabel, tuvo un aborto de pocos meses. Los RRCC tenían el campamento a las afueras del pueblo, donde hoy día está el cementerio. La leyenda cuenta que en una de las tiendas de campaña ahí montadas, la Reina abortó. Es por eso por lo que se cree que los RRCC decidieron construir una iglesia en nombre de su hijo Sebastián, de ahí el nombre de la ermita. En ningún libro se hace constar nada de un aborto o hijo de la reina que muriera, por eso esto se conoce sólo por las gentes de Setenil, transmitido de sus antepasados.

Umignon, can you translate this?
It seems that Isabel had another miscarriage in 1484

[aron]

1. Isabel, 1470.

2. Miscarried son, 1475.

3. Juan, 1478.

4. Juana, 1479.

5+6. María and a stillborn twin sister, 1482.

7. miscarriage 1484

8. Catalina, 1485.

9. Another miscarriage (what sex?), 1490

[umigon]

from
www.setenil.com/historia.htm
San Sebastián.

 Â   En el tiempo en que los RRCC tomaban Setenil, o, poco después, alrededor del año 1484, se dice que la Reina Isabel, tuvo un aborto de pocos meses. Los RRCC tenían el campamento a las afueras del pueblo, donde hoy día está el cementerio. La leyenda cuenta que en una de las tiendas de campaña ahí montadas, la Reina abortó. Es por eso por lo que se cree que los RRCC decidieron construir una iglesia en nombre de su hijo Sebastián, de ahí el nombre de la ermita. En ningún libro se hace constar nada de un aborto o hijo de la reina que muriera, por eso esto se conoce sólo por las gentes de Setenil, transmitido de sus antepasados.

Umignon, can you translate this?
It seems that Isabel had another miscarriage in 1484

When Ferdinand and Isabella were conquering Setenil, or soon afterwards, circa 1484, it is said that Queen Isabella miscarried a foetus of a few months. They had set up their military camp in the outskirts of the village, in the place where you can find the cemetery today. That's why it is believed that Ferdinand and Isabella built up a church after their son's name, Sebastián. No book says anything about a miscarriage or a dead son of the Queen so this story is only known by the people of Setenil, who have transmitted the story from generation to generation.



That is the translation, not a good one, as I wasn't inspired, but is a close translation. It could be true that she miscarried a baby in 1484, but it is also true that no book, as far as I know, had recorded the fact. I don't think the story about the church being dedicated to Saint Sebastian because of a dead son of Ferdinand and Isabella is true, but it could be true that Isabella miscarried in 1484, I don't see why not.

[aron]

Umigon, thank you, for translating this.
So far, we do have 9 pregnancies for Isabel. Some sources aren't very reliable.

[umigon]

We have 8 pregnancies, but yep, we just need another more baby to complete the ten they supposedly have. What pregnancies do we know that occurred for sure?

1. Isabel (1470).

2. Son (1475).

3. Juan (1478).

4. Juana (1479).

5/6. María and stillborn twin sister (1482).

7. Catalina (1485).


The 1490 miscarriage is from a reliable source? 1484's miscarriage is certainly not from a reliable source!

[aron]

The miscarriage is also from internet, don't know anymore which site and google doesn;t give a hit for this event.
Strange that the pregnancies of Isabel are not recorded.

[umigon]

It is strange, yes. What is even more strange is the fact that the 1475 miscarriage was supposed to have been secret because Isabel didn't want Fernando to know about it!

[aron]

Strange, the children and miscarriage of Joana of Portugal, wife of Enrique IV are recorded and the pregnancies of Isabel not.

[Rebecca]

This topic is very interesting. I have been wondering about the children of Isabel I ever since I read a passage in the book "Divorced, beheaded, survived" by Karen Lindsey. It is not a novel. It contains shorter biographies of the wives if Henry VIII.

Anyway the passage is: "Både Isabella av Kastiljen och Elizabeth av York hade förlorat fem barn, späda eller dödfödda." That is the passage in Swedish (as I have the Swedish edition). I will try to re-translate it to English: "Both Isabel of Castile and Elizabeth of York had lost five children, in infancy or stillborn." It refers to the fact that Catherine of Aragon already at a young age was "aware how fragile the life of a child was and that few women could expect all their children to reach adulthood."

Reading that made me wonder, as I knew only of five children of Isabel I. You have already found out a few more. I know that I'm not contributing to solve the question with this post, but I just thought that I would post it anyway.

[aron]

Let us see:
Elizabeth lost: Arthur, Edward, Edmund, Elizabeth and Katherine. That makes 5.
Perhaps the statement about Isabel I is true.

[umigon]

It is commonly regarded, as far as I know, that Edward wasn't really another son, but that historians got confused with Edmund's name and that lead to think Henry and Elizabeth had another son called Edward. Am I right?

[aron]

Some historians say that Elizabeth did had a son named Edward. Elizabeth, while pregnant, was so shocked by the death of the younger Elizabeth in 1495 that she had a miscarriage/still birth. Perhaps this child was the so called Edward.