Author Topic: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia  (Read 92171 times)

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Offline Annie

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #420 on: April 07, 2006, 08:01:57 AM »
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So, why Gilliard did it?

IMO, because either he was sick and tired of the case and didn't want to be hounded anymore, or, being elderly, did it as an absent minded mistake. It made a lot of difference to me to find out he was so old when it happened. Old people sometimes do stuff like that because their mind slips, or they are being cantakerous. He knew AA was not AN because he knew the real AN.

 
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The existence of the Malaquita room is a good point

She said it existed, but described its interior all wrong! She was coached by someone who knew a little about the family, but not enough to be detailed or accurate. (probably a lot of her info came from Gleb Botkin, her biggest supporter, who was the son of Dr. Botkin, so he had intimate, yet limited knowledge of the family and their surroundings. He was also a journalist in NYC. AA was a good story, don't you think?)

Offline ordino

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #421 on: April 07, 2006, 11:04:20 AM »
Annie, you say that Gilliard did  some things becouse he was old or was bored of the all staff about AA, becouse he knew the real AN. So, When AA described worng the malaquita room it will be maybe because also she is bored, old and of course with more traumatic experience than Gilliard.
About the help from Gleb Botkin.  He was a friend of OTMA and his sister Tatiana too. Why, when this people who were near to IF said that Yes AA=AN always we have doubts about their oppinios.
Really, I can not understand why Gilliard with 54 or 52 years old burned a papers so important for this story, the only razon I can see is that he was hidden somethig
Thanks Ordino

Offline Annie

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #422 on: April 07, 2006, 11:17:07 AM »
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Annie, you say that Gilliard did  some things becouse he was old or was bored of the all staff about AA, becouse he knew the real AN. So, When AA described worng the malaquita room it will be maybe because also she is bored, old and of course with more traumatic experience than Gilliard.

She told it wrong because she had never actually seen it, and the person who told her the story got it wrong. AA was never in the palace since she was FS and not AN.

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About the help from Gleb Botkin.  He was a friend of OTMA and his sister Tatiana too. Why, when this people who were near to IF said that Yes AA=AN always we have doubts about their oppinios.

Because they knew AN, they could have told AA things.


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Really, I can not understand why Gilliard with 54 or 52 years old burned a papers so important for this story, the only razon I can see is that he was hidden somethig
Thanks Ordino

He was nearly 80 years old when he did it.

Offline ordino

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #423 on: April 07, 2006, 12:51:22 PM »
Annie, ChatNoir said in reply number 428 that Gilliard burned his papers and all staff in 1933 with 53 years old. It looks that he wanted to look the door for ever and ever. And a point that I forgot before.
Gilliard always said that he had very close to the IF or this is the impression that it do. Maybe the existence of AA destroyed this impression. So Annie Why Gilliard with 53 years old burner all the memoralia of his beloved IF?. Ordino >:(

Offline Annie

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #424 on: April 07, 2006, 04:25:44 PM »
If he burned it in 1933 why did he not say it until 1958? A lot had gone on in the case over those 25 years. I don't know what to believe (Except that AA was not AN, I do know that.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline ordino

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #425 on: April 08, 2006, 12:38:11 PM »
OK, Annie, I see your point but don´t you think that Gilliard is not a reliable witness for this case?
And a question because my ignorance - I m new at the forum, Im here since December 2005, more or less- You say ftp://I don't know what to believe (Except that AA was not AN, I do know that.) , and you repeat this all over the forum, I catch this but, please give at least 4 strong points to that support your point, one point is out of this, that is the ADN´s point.
Thanks is advance Annie.
Ordino :)

Offline Annie

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #426 on: April 09, 2006, 08:43:18 AM »
Four 'strong points'

1. The DNA tests have proven that AA was not AN, and was 99% sure to be FS.
2. AA does not look like AN, but looks more like FS.
3. AA appeared in the same place near the same time FS vanished.
4. AA did not speak English and Russian well as AN would have and did not have AN's known gift for picking up perfect accents.


I could go on...

5. Her story of escape in a cart is absolutely ridiculous and unrealistic considering the injures and conditions they'd be traveling under, and the weather, and more. Her story of having the baby in December is crazy since AN was not pregnant in 1918 and even if she was no way would the baby survive the trauma she suffered and the cart trip. There is NO EVIDENCE of the ficticious rescuer "Alexander Tchiakovsky."

6. She really knew very little 'memories' and most of those were wrong.

I could STILL go on, but it's not going to do any good. One thing you need to know is that this is NOT up to personal opinion anymore. The DNA has proven it to be a fact that she was not AN.

Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #427 on: April 09, 2006, 08:50:21 AM »
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Four 'strong points'

I could STILL go on, but it's not going to do any good. One thing you need to know is that this is NOT up to personal opinion anymore. The DNA has proven it to be a fact that she was not AN.

Exactly. It's all very well to say 'let's leave the DNA out of this' but that's impossible.  This is not about personal opinion it's about the FACT that the DNA PROVED AA was not AN.

Expressing a belief that AA was AN is equivalent to declaring that the sun revolves around the earth; you're going against established scientific facts.  

It's not about who said what and who may have lied, it's about a scientific test that is accepted by LAW as PROOF of identity.

If you want to go against science and the law, then go ahead.  But you're fighting a pointless battle, because the case is closed. There is no question as to AA's identity.  She was FS.  We're just here to talk about how AA managed to hoodwink people for so long.

Rachel
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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ra-Ra-Rasputin »
'History teaches that history teaches us nothing' ~ Hegel

Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #428 on: April 09, 2006, 10:20:04 AM »
Thanks for the heads up, elfwine! I have modified accordingly; I wrote that post in a hurry! ;)

I agree absolutely.  Most of these threads degenerate into farce because there are some people who just can't accept the truth.

I wouldn't mind if they would have a logical discussion but they don't; everything we say is ignored and the same Peter Kurth comments are repeated ad nauseum.

I feel like I'm going round and round in circles every time.

Rachel
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'History teaches that history teaches us nothing' ~ Hegel

Offline Annie

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #429 on: April 09, 2006, 04:22:47 PM »
Thanks for your words of wisdom Rachel.

The only question is HOW she pulled of the charade, and WHO helped her and how, there is no more question about her identity. The DNA proved that. It's now a scientific and historical fact, and is not open to personal opinions anymore.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #430 on: April 09, 2006, 10:41:37 PM »
I just read an article that someone posted recently stating that both AN and AA had peculiar fingers. The three middle fingers (on each hand?) were of equal lenght.  Can anybody shed some light on this?

Kind regards
Chat Noir

Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #431 on: April 10, 2006, 06:15:58 AM »
AA and AN both had two legs.

Can someone explain this miraculous similarity?

Rachel
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'History teaches that history teaches us nothing' ~ Hegel

Offline Annie

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #432 on: April 10, 2006, 08:41:04 AM »
Fingers, now, is it? Golly I never heard that one. What's the 'source?' There are no pictures of either of their hands layed out straight to measure so how can you prove it? I don't buy it.

I was thinking of another hole in her story. What about Alexei? We know now that his body, and one girl, presumably AN, are missing. She never had him as part of her escape or gave any details as to what happened to him or his body. Maybe that was because she wasn't really AN!

Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #433 on: April 10, 2006, 11:46:04 AM »
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I was thinking of another hole in her story. What about Alexei? We know now that his body, and one girl, presumably AN, are missing. She never had him as part of her escape or gave any details as to what happened to him or his body. Maybe that was because she wasn't really AN!

I have also thought that, and brought it up on another thread.

If AN escaped and we get that from the 'logic' that missing body = survival, then where is Alexei? If AN was rescued and that's why her body is missing, surely Alexei must have been too, otherwise, he'd be in the mass grave.  The fact that nothing was ever said about the survival of Alexei blows that theory completely out of the water, not to mention that Alexei would have bled to death pretty quickly.

Yurovsky said a GD and Alexei were burned separately.  A GD and Alexei are missing from the grave.  So, what Yurovsky said makes complete sense and should not still be open to question.  If Anastasia escaped, so must Alexei have done, if Yurovsky was lying about the burning to 'cover up' them going missing.  AA never said anything about Alexei, so that's another reason why all these conspiracies just don't work.  You can't clutch at one piece of 'evidence' and ignore the rest that contradicts it. The chances of two people being rescued from under the guard's noses are ridiculously slim.

Rachel
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'History teaches that history teaches us nothing' ~ Hegel

Offline Annie

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was GD Anastasia
« Reply #434 on: April 12, 2006, 07:46:47 AM »
But Alexandra didn't have different DNA than her children, because the three in the grave had the same she had, and it all matched that of the sample from Prince Phillip, who is the grandson of Alexandra's sister Victoria (through her daughter Alice, keeping the female-female mtDNA line pure to that point, of course Phillip being a man couldn't pass it on, but he has it)

As Helen mentioned, there was an anomaly with Nicholas's DNA but it was still proven, and since he is the father not the mother, his mtDNA has nothing to do with the children who always get it from their mother.

Don't forget too that AA's DNA matched that of the Schanskowska family, making it 99% sure she was Franziska Schanskowska.

Note: you can have a 100% match on who somebody is NOT (such as, AA is NOT AN) but you can't get any higher than 99% on who they are, for ANYBODY, using mtDNA, or nuclear DNA as they do in paternity cases. If you see those 'who's the baby's Daddy' shows, you see that most paternity tests only come up 96-98%, though not even the maddest deadbeat Dad claims the DNA was switched by the other possible father, or yells 'so there's still a 2% chance, I ain't paying!' Yet, even though those these mens' lives are directly affected by these results, they don't challenge them, they accept the scientific results. So I can't understand how it affects anyone's life that AA wasn't AN enough to grab at any straw they can, or get upset over being told she wasn't AN???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »