Author Topic: The Romanov You Dislike  (Read 59882 times)

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Offline Elisabeth

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The Romanov You Dislike
« on: October 28, 2004, 07:56:12 AM »
Okay, we know who everybody’s favorite Romanov is. But who’s your least favorite? The Romanov(s) you really don’t like?

I nominate Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich for breaking his oath to Nicholas II while the tsar was still on the throne. As commanding officer of the Garde Equipage, he led his men to the Duma where he swore allegiance to that body. Then he went home and raised a red flag over his palace. These were not only dishonorable actions, they also constituted a personal betrayal of Nicholas and Alexandra.
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Offline Annie

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2004, 08:11:28 AM »
I also vote Kyril, and the entire Vladmirovichi line!

Offline ISteinke

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2004, 08:31:17 AM »
I would have to cast my vote for Grand Duke Kyril. Queen Marie of Rumania once made the comment that Kyril was "the marble man- extraordinarily cold and selfish." When one reads the story of Kyril's life the impression comes across that he was just plain "evil."

rskkiya

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2004, 08:34:37 AM »
      Well--at the risk of being "excommunicated" ( ;) LOL) I cannot say that I like any of the Romanovs...
   I dislike KR the least --but that's not really answering the topic query...
Oh well!
sorry
Rskkiya

Offline Karentje

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2004, 08:41:20 AM »
I give my vote - as most do apparently :D - to Grand Duke Kyrill Vladimirovich. And for the same reason you did Elizabeth, I cannot forgive him for betraying N&A like that. I also dislike him intensely for proclaiming himself Tsar after WWI was over, and this after he actively  helped the Revolutionists to bring down Nicolas II and the Tsarist regime. In my eyes, Kiryll was dishonorable and hypocritical.


Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2004, 09:24:35 AM »
I'll toss in Kyril too. I don't think I've read a good thing about him. I also have to say Serge just because while I think he's been overly-vilified, I also think he didn't treat Ella as well as she deserved and his actions while Governor of Moscow were horrid. Also the way he tried to co-op Marie & Dmitri from Paul makes me uncomortable.
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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2004, 10:01:13 AM »
I nominate Nicholas and Alexandra for driving the empire to its ultimate collapsed without any regard for the consequences that their children and other relations would be faced with!  :-[

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Dashkova

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2004, 10:06:25 AM »
I second your nomination, Mr. Beeche.

Offline Annie

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2004, 10:08:44 AM »
I don't think it's fair to say that about N &A, it's not as if it were intentional. They made some terrible mistakes but I believe their intentions were always good. If you don't like them as people that's one thing but don't act like they destroyed the empire on purpose.

I dislike the Vladimirovichi both personally and for their actions, and their general demeanor and personalities.

Offline Angie_H

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2004, 10:56:39 AM »
I agree with Art. It might not have been N & A's intention, but when several people tried to point out the problems and that there was a need for change they chose to ignore the advice. That was their fault. But they are not the ones I most dislike.  I have to say one of the things I did dislike about Ella is her treatment toward Maria Pavlona. Perhaps she resented the attention Serge gave them, maybe they were reminders of her own childlessness or maybe she just didn't want them hoisted on her to become hers & Serge's responsibility but she was wrong in her treatment towards the children. They didn't want to go to their uncle & aunt. They wanted their father.
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Offline Janet_W.

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2004, 10:59:19 AM »
Perhaps "dislike" should be clarified.

I can find something to dislike about a lot of people--and a lot of things to dislike about myself.

But if I choose to be with a person, whatever I find less than attractive is outvoted by what I appreciate in that person's character, attitude, and actions. And as for myself . . . well, I choose to focus on my positive qualities, and modify (to the eventual goal of abolishment) those things about me which I dislike. So to me, dislike is not an especially disagreeable term. It is a way of identifying what one chooses to emphasize and to deemphasize. And in my opinion, it has nothing to do with blaming a person or persons for something as catastrophic as a revolution.

While reading his two volumes of autobiography, I have found certain aspects of Sandro's personality which I find blustery to the point of caricature. But certainly he would have been an interesting person to know, and I do not doubt that much of what he wrote had more than a grain of truth to it.

I might find Alix overbearing. Or, I might find her generous, foolish, warm-hearted, grudge-bearing, and/or conscientious. But, I do not doubt that she was trying to do her very best--for her husband, for her children, for her country. I cannot dislike flawed people with good intentions.

On the other hand, after viewing the collection of diamonds at the Kremlin, I can say this: I dislike--hate--the attitudes of previous Romanovs that focused on accumulation of wealth over the well-being of their people, and who began the horrible cycle of abuse which ultimately led to the murder of multitudes, the Imperial Family included.

While others in my tour oohed and ahhhed, I looked at that array of gems and saw only blood.

rskkiya

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2004, 11:25:11 AM »
Quote
I nominate Nicholas and Alexandra for driving the empire to its ultimate collapsed qithout any regard for the consequences that their childrena nd other relations would be faced with!  :-[
Arturo Beéche



Well stated sir!

rskkiya

Offline Namarolf

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2004, 11:59:35 AM »
Grand Prince Kiril Vladimirovich had many good personal qualities -for instance I admire his decision to marry Viktoria Fyodorovna even if at that time the wedding made him lost his position in the Navy and the Court. Cerytainly, an ambitious man with no feelings would not have done so.

In other thread in this forum, Mr. Greg King has already explained and clarified many of the accusations against Kiril. I would also reccomend people to read GP K's autobiography - it gave me new sides of his life and thought. He may have been a "cold" man -but so was George V, and few people would call George "pure evil", despite his refusal to welcome N II and his family in 1917. Besides, the leading characters in Russian history were not exactly "warm" people: Ivan IV, Pyotr I, Yekaterina II, Lenin, Stalin...

Why should GP Kiril be blamed for proclaiming himself Tsar in 1924? With N II, Tsarevich Aleksey and GP Mikhail A. dead, he was the next in line, and a restoration was still likely to happen. Should we blame Charles II or Louis XVIII for styling themselves kings while they were in exile? Or Queen Wilhelmina and King Haakon for keeping their royal title while their countries were occupied by the Germans?

I wouldn't say GP Kiril is my favorite Romanov, but I prefer him to many others - his own son Vladimir, to start with.


Val289

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2004, 01:27:12 PM »
I'd have to say that my least favourite has always been Kyril, although Serge is a close second.

And Janet_W - Very well stated! :

Quote
I might find Alix overbearing. Or, I might find her generous, foolish, warm-hearted, grudge-bearing, and/or conscientious. But, I do not doubt that she was trying to do her very best--for her husband, for her children, for her country. I cannot dislike flawed people with good intentions.



Offline RichC

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Re: The Romanov You Dislike
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2004, 02:02:42 PM »
This is a tough one for me.  Tsar Nicholas II is my least favorite because he definitely had the power, authority, intelligence and opportunity to reform Russia and possibly prevent the catastrophes that took place.  Yet he lacked the will to make the tough decisions.

But I also admire Nicholas II because he maintained his dignity throughout his imprisonment.  That must have taken a lot of self control.