Duke Philippe d'Orléans (brother of Louis XIV), and his family

[umigon]

Well, the thread about them is started, ilyala.

For those who don't know them, Philippe was born in 1640 to Louis XIII of France and Anne of Austria, thus being Louis XIV younger brother. Spoiled by his mother, he ended being a frivolous (at times) and witty young and attractive homosexual. Married because of political reasons in 1661 to his cousin Henrietta Anne Stuart (1644-1670), daughter of the ill-fated King Charles I, their marriage was a personal failure, and although they managed to conceive 8 children, only two daughters survived: Marie Louise, future Queen of Spain; and Anne Marie, future Queen of Sardinia.

Married then in 1671 to Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate (1652-1722), a woman who was much more tolerant and personally stable than Minette (Henrietta), after having three children, Monsieur and Liselotte decided to sleep separately for the rest of their lives. Their two surviving children were: future Duke Philippe II of Orleans and Elizabeth Charlotte, future Duchess of Lorraine.

Philippe was a talented warrior, and he gained some respect in battles during the first half of the 1660's. Louis, jealous of his brother's fame, forbid him to take part in any thing which had to do with war under the excuse that he was his only brother. Philippe was also a loving and doting father, but a horrible husband and an extremely jealous lover. He also engaged in many debts that made Liselotte fear for her children's future...


Philippe would die in 1701, after a strong argument he had with his brother. Louis cried for days, but forced the Court to do normal life.

[umigon]

PHILIPPE D'ORLÉANS (1640-1701):

[umigon]

HENRIETTA ANNE STUART (1644-1670):

[umigon]

ELIZABETH CHARLOTTE VON DER PFALZ (1652-1722):

[Prince_Lieven]

I feel awfully sorry for Minette, I always have. Liselotte was her cousin, I beleive. Liselotte's aunt was Sophie of the Palatinate, Electress of Hanover on whom the English succession was settled. Liselotte was very close to her and wrote her many letters. she was a tremenduous gossip and a very fun loving woman.

On a side note, the Jacobite claimant to the throne of Britain is descended from Minette and Philippe's second daughter Anne-Marie, since Marie-Louise died childless.

[umigon]

Well, Minette was no saint, she first engaged in  an affair with King Louis and after that, she became Armand de Gramont's lover, and Armand had been Philippe's lover until that point!!

[Prince_Lieven]

<grumbling>. I never said she was a saint. Besides, where did you hear that she was Louis' lover? Has this been confirmed beyond all reasonable doubt? I know that Henrietta Maria wanted Minette to marry Louis but he dismisse her as a silly child.

Anyway, why should Philippe be allowed have affairs, but Minette not?

[umigon]

Well, in those times men could have affairs, but women were supposed to be faithful all their lives, even after their husband's death, unless they were still young and they were married off to someone else!

Well, Louis courted her openly and although it has never been officially confirmed, he used to spend many nights in her company, supposedly accompanied by her maids, but who knows... he was the King, and he thought that she was a charming woman.

Minette was very thin when she married Philippe, and being thin in those times was not something that resulted attractive (unlike nowadays). But it really was good fun to be with her and she stood out in every party. Her face was pretty and her marriage a failure... she had everything to be one of Louis's "victims", and she even intrigued against Louise de la Vallière. During the first months of Monsieur and Minette's marriage, everybody in the Court talked about the famous "affair".

Some authors have even suggested that Louis slept with Minette in order to provide legitimate heirs to his gay brother (although the babies would really be illegitimate). I think this theory is nonsense, as Liselotte will write years later the effort Philippe made with her in order to have children.


(about Minette's sainthood, I wasn't meaning to be rude! And then, who was a saint in that Court?  )

[ilyala]

all that's interesting and all but my real point of interest is...

*drumroll*

louis was born after 20 years of barren marriage. that in itself was a miracle but to have a brother coming after him...! anyone else find that strange?  

[Prince_Lieven]

Unusual but certainly not unprecedented . . .

[ilyala]

i read rumours that the fact that the whole thing happened just after mazarin came into the scene is not a coincidence...   (just trying to get things interesting)

[Prince_Lieven]

Well, let's be fair to Louis XIII and Anne of Austria - please understand, ilyala, I'm not going out of my way to disagree with you . . . But what I mean is that after 20 years of marriage, a change is diet or something could have affected either Louis or Anne's fertility . . . or of course Louis XIV and Philippe may have been illegitimate! : - )

[umigon]

Mazarin was just Richelieu's advisor and well, it could be possible that Philippe was really Anne's bastard but, I can hardly believe it after Anne's behaviour all through her marriage...

[ilyala]

i'm not saying either louis or philippe were bastards. i am just trying to spice things up a little

but i do find it peculiar the way they both came so late into the marriage... anne was way past her fertile years at that point...

[umigon]

Well, I suppose you all know about the miraculous conception of Louis XIV, don't you?


Louis XIII had been hunting all the evening of December 5th, 1637, when suddenly a huge storm made him return to Paris. His rooms were not prepared (you know, so many little things they had to do so that the king would be happy!) and someone suggested that Queen Anne could receive him in the Louvre.

Louis was reticent, but as there was no other option available, he resigned. He had dinner with his wife (whom he had not seen for months) and then, they slept together for the first time in years! Exactly nine months after that, day by day, Anne gave birth to Louis Dieudonné, future Louis XIV.