Author Topic: What kind of student?  (Read 23816 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Grand Duchess Jennifer

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
  • "Give my love to all who remember me"-Olga,1918
    • View Profile
    • The Last Grand-Duchesses of Russia-OTMA
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2009, 03:53:05 PM »
I always heard that he was shot, not taken to prison. :-\

Please visit www.freewebs.com/grand-duchessesofrussiaotma/
Banner and Icon by Ally

Offline nena

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2927
  • But every spring smells like you.
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2009, 03:54:16 PM »
He was in prison,and later shot, at June 25, I think, with Ivan Sednev.

Sorry, June 1st, see Sarah's post.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 04:13:22 PM by nena »
-Ars longa, vita brevis -
Mathematics, art and history in ♥

Offline Grand Duchess Jennifer

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
  • "Give my love to all who remember me"-Olga,1918
    • View Profile
    • The Last Grand-Duchesses of Russia-OTMA
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2009, 03:55:37 PM »
Thanks for the info, Nena! :)

Please visit www.freewebs.com/grand-duchessesofrussiaotma/
Banner and Icon by Ally

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2009, 04:08:32 PM »
So that´s not true? I´ve read it in several books....

IMO, it's not true. For a long time Lvov's stories were presumed to be true, but apparently nobody investigated them. Lvov also spread a similar story that Nagorny was arrested after protesting because Aleksei was only allowed one pair of boots. A variant of this version found its way into Buxhoeveden's book.

 
He was in prison,and later shot, at June 25, I think, with Ivan Sednev.

Nagorny and Sednev spent one night (27 May new style) in the Ekaterinburg city prison. They were shot on the evening of 1 June, after army eight bombs were discovered on top a wardrobe the two men had used at the Ipatiev house.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline nena

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2927
  • But every spring smells like you.
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2009, 04:14:53 PM »
I have always doubt in 'Aleksei's one pair of boots', but Pierre Gillard also said it. ?  :o
-Ars longa, vita brevis -
Mathematics, art and history in ♥

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2009, 04:35:55 PM »
I have always doubt in 'Aleksei's one pair of boots', but Pierre Gillard also said it. ?  :o

But Gilliard wasn't there, either. ;-) If I recall correctly, Gilliard was in contact with Lvov after the murders. He probably heard the story from Lvov himself.

The imperial couple's diaries are very clear on this point: they had no idea why Nagorny & Sednev were removed. If Nagorny was arrested for somehow defending Aleksei, it makes no sense that N&A didn't say so in their diaries. Either way, Lvov's stories can't explain why Sednev was removed from the IH at the same time.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Terence

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 208
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2009, 11:42:27 PM »
Nagorny and Sednev spent one night (27 May new style) in the Ekaterinburg city prison. They were shot on the evening of 1 June, after army eight bombs were discovered on top a wardrobe the two men had used at the Ipatiev house.

Thanks for your info here Sarushka.

On the item above, what do you think about the bombs discovered that led to the execution of Nagorny and Sednev?  I've read speculation this was a setup just to get rid of able bodied males, out of the house before the execution.  What gives this credence is I can't understand how they could have obatianed the material for these bombs.  Your opinion?

Regards,
T

Offline nena

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2927
  • But every spring smells like you.
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2009, 06:30:16 AM »
He wasn't, but it doesn't mean it is not true. :-). I believe that he contacted Lvov. -- and I know what people say just to be famous(like Lvov), but it is possible about Aleksei's pair, as same time is not.

Look here about that Prince Georgii Lvov:
http://avalovf.narod.ru/Homepage_eng/Histor/7.html
-Ars longa, vita brevis -
Mathematics, art and history in ♥

Offline Olga Maria

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2127
  • 1 Corinthians 13, Mark 11: 23-24, Romans 8: 38-39
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2009, 06:41:15 AM »
Quote
Generally unlike Maria and Anastasia she didn't have any major grammar/spelling issues once she was older (Hikaru posted in some other thread that she and Olga's written Russian was perfect, no errors, etc).

  I'm quite surprised at the fact that any of them managed to write properly, since their mother had terrible grammar and spelling and almost always wrote in shorthand.  :P ::)
So, only Olga and Tatiana can say and write a flawless Russian while Alexandra, Anastasia and Maria cannot.
I now could say that Russian had been difficult for Alix for she cannot still write/say it like a native. Has she maintained her German accent despite of living in Russia since she became a Tsarina?

I changed the topic suddenly, whew!

Amazing colored fotos  by the most wonderful Yelena Aleksandrovna. Endless thank you very much!

Proud_Olga

  • Guest
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2009, 06:55:46 AM »
I don't where I read that Alix had no German accent, but had a British one which people seemed to misinterpret as a German accent.

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2009, 07:36:27 AM »
Quote
Generally unlike Maria and Anastasia she didn't have any major grammar/spelling issues once she was older (Hikaru posted in some other thread that she and Olga's written Russian was perfect, no errors, etc).

  I'm quite surprised at the fact that any of them managed to write properly, since their mother had terrible grammar and spelling and almost always wrote in shorthand.  :P ::)
So, only Olga and Tatiana can say and write a flawless Russian while Alexandra, Anastasia and Maria cannot.

I'm not sure what hikaru's source was, but according to Marina Petrov, who translated Olga's 1913 diary from images of the original documents, Olga's handwriting and syntax were "far from perfect."
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2009, 07:59:07 AM »
On the item above, what do you think about the bombs discovered that led to the execution of Nagorny and Sednev?  I've read speculation this was a setup just to get rid of able bodied males, out of the house before the execution.  What gives this credence is I can't understand how they could have obatianed the material for these bombs.  Your opinion?

I find it puzzling as well. NAM's and OTAA's belongings were searched a number of times upon their arrival in Ekaterinburg. Nagorny and Trupp were searched and questioned for nearly two hours before they were permitted to enter the IF's living quarters. The bombs were army bombs, marked and numbered, so they were not homemade, and as such would have been smuggled in whole. I'm not sure how thorough the Bolsheviks' searches of the Romanovs' luggage were, and whether it would have been possible for Nagorny & Sednev to get so many bombs into the Ipatiev House undetected.

Although the discovery of the bombs is noted in the Ipatiev guard duty book, that doesn't rule out the possibility that it was a ruse, deliberately entered into the official record.

I find the chronology interesting as well:

10/23 May -- OTAA arrive in Ekaterinburg
11/24 May -- Nagorny & Trupp permitted to enter (after submitting to search & questioning)
14/27 May -- Nagorny & Sednev removed without explanation, they spend the night in the city prison
19 May/1 June -- 8 bombs discovered by Kharitonov in wardrobe shared by Nagorny & Sednev; N&S are shot that evening

So if the story of the bombs is true, it can only explain Nagorny & Sednev's execution, not their arrest. Personally, I tend to agree with King & Wilson's conclusion on this matter: N&S were probably arrested simply because they were the youngest and most able-bodied members remaining on the tsar's staff. To a certain degree, it's more puzzling that Nagorny & Sednev were ever let INTO the Ipatiev house at all. From the moment the Romanovs arrived in Ekaterinburg, the Bolsheviks began filtering out the most able-bodied males from the IF's retinue: Tatishchev and Dulgoruky were never admitted into the IH with NAM, for example....
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline nena

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2927
  • But every spring smells like you.
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2009, 11:14:05 AM »
Exactly -- love your comparasion. But, why they allowed to little Leonid to stay with IF?
-Ars longa, vita brevis -
Mathematics, art and history in ♥

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2009, 12:11:09 PM »
Exactly -- love your comparasion. But, why they allowed to little Leonid to stay with IF?

Perhaps for the same reason they allowed him to escape the execution -- he was young, and probably not perceived as a threat. Possibly he evoked pity.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline nena

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2927
  • But every spring smells like you.
    • View Profile
Re: What kind of student?
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2009, 12:16:21 PM »
Yes, I agree -- too sad IF didn't evoke pity.

He was found crying in Ipatiev House's kitchen( soon after massacre), he cried 'aloud' like one solider discribed. He slept in Popov House, to another account, in duty house near Ipatiev, was dressed good. (Read this in Petrovna Miller Lyubov's book, 'IF - victim of dark will').
-Ars longa, vita brevis -
Mathematics, art and history in ♥