Author Topic: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich  (Read 137470 times)

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bluetoria

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2005, 05:24:18 AM »
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i salute anyone, royalty or not, who defied Hitler and his animal soliders.  it took a great deal of bravery against such horrific people.


I'm sure everyone is agreed that the atrocities of the Nazi regime were appalling beyond belief and that it took a great deal of courage to take a stand against such a regime. I think it's a little dangerous though, to label the soldiers 'animal soldiers' - These were very ordinary people at first and perhaps show the depths to which any of us (much as we would hate to think it) could sink without due caution. Instead of labelling them animals, perhaps it is better that we learn to be more aware of our own prejudices, wouldn't you say?  :)



rita

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2005, 06:00:11 AM »
It is very important to think about history, to see the reasons, occasions and connections and to learn for the future.
And I think it is also important to have human principles in the own life.

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2005, 02:10:55 PM »
In reading over the posts on this subject, a couple important points, to me, seem important to know. First, National Socialism started out with support from many people including Joseph Kennedy (father of President Kennedy), Charles Lindbergh, Henry Ford, and others. The social/political system appeared to lend itself to supporting all strata of society while improving the quality of life for a war and depression weary population. So, the fact that many Germans and former royalty initially found the Nazis to be somewhat acceptable (although party membership was definitley NOT inclusive of the majority of people) is no surprise.

Next, the Final Solution was created and put forth in late 1943, well after any early support the Nazis may have garnered from the people or royalty. By that time, many had become totally disillusioned and anti-Nazi. Von Stauffenberg and other nobility who were aware of the crimes of the Nazi leadership did act to end the disaster, but failed, as has most such attempts to overthrow a powerful dictator throughout history.

Remember "Schindler's List"? Schindler was a high ranking Nazi official; clearly he signed up in the early years for what seemed to be a promising future for Germany, but when he realized the direction the party leadership had taken, he did what he could to rescue people. The same is true of many royals as well as regular citizens, realizing the "regular" citizens in 1943-1945 Germany were children, women and old people. All the men from age 15 to 50 were in battle.

Finelly's comments are in line with what I am familiar with, and Israel, for example is sponsoring a symposium on the Hohenzollern family with an eye toward a different, more positive view.
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Linnea

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2005, 05:13:55 PM »
and don´t forget the anti-nazi organisation of young students "Weiße Rose"...

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2005, 06:47:01 PM »
Yes, the White Rose organization was quite heroic, and under fear of death (which actually was the result) they forged ahead with the cause. Today, most westerners have no idea what "threat of death" actually means or how/if we would put ourselves in front of a firing squad for a rightful cause.

Also, it was suggested earlier that the Church was allied with the Nazis. Most aristocracy was Lutheran; the Kaiser was the head of the Lutheran Church of Germany and this relationship between the Church and the royals persisted years after WWI. Some Church leaders capitulated in terms of not overly preaching against the Nazis, but I have found no indication that the Church leaders were Nazis. Quite opposite, many many of ministers and priests were victims in concentration camps along with the others. A very notable one was Dietrich Bonhoeffer who, as a Lutheran minister, worked for years in anti-Hitler groups. The government finally gathered evidence of what he was up to, arrested him, and executed him in concentration camp along with his brother and brother in law. Bonhoeffer was from nobility as well.
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Linnea

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2005, 01:15:57 PM »
"Yes, the White Rose organization was quite heroic, and under fear of death (which actually was the result) they forged ahead with the cause. Today, most westerners have no idea what "threat of death" actually means or how/if we would put ourselves in front of a firing squad for a rightful cause."

Thomas Mann said the following in a speech (after he had heared about their actions): "Bravo, herrliche junge Leute! Ihr sollt nicht umsonst gestorben sein..." (Bravo, admirable young people! You shouldn´t have died for nothing)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Linnea »

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2005, 05:11:48 PM »
Was the Stauffenberg family related to the Hesse's?
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rita

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2005, 04:25:00 AM »
I Think there was no relation ( marriage ) between the families, besause the Hessians were lutherans and the Stauffenbergs catholics.
They know each other. Donatus was born 1906, Claus Schenk von Stauffenberg was born 1907.

Linnea

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2005, 05:49:50 AM »
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I Think there was no relation ( marriage ) between the families, besause the Hessians were lutherans and the Stauffenbergs catholics.
They know each other. Donatus was born 1906, Claus Schenk von Stauffenberg was born 1907.

...and the Stauffenbergs weren´t of equal birth

Duke_of_Lynnwood

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2005, 01:24:48 AM »
What monarchs, particularly german monarchs, were against Hitler's regime? I know Bavarians were against it and some of the Kaiser's sons but I also know that alot thought it was good for Germany. Like The Kaiser at the onset but later was against. I know Prince Charles Edward, Prince Ernst August III were nazis.

How did everyone else feel?

Eric_Lowe

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2005, 09:56:55 AM »
Things are not cut and dry and simple...Each case is different. Hell...The current pope is a Hitler youth as did Prince Claus of Holland, would you call them Nazis ?  ???

Duke_of_Lynnwood

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2005, 12:31:54 PM »
that's kind of why I'm asking. Whether they were nazis or not, who was against Hitler? When it comes to being a Hitler youth that's pretty different because you would be killed for not being in that, so yeah. I'm talking about royalty anyway. Pope Benedict isn't royal. Neither is Claus really a prince by blood but by marriage. Whether forced or voluntary, they were nazis though.

I'm talking about Royalty. They had the wealth and mobility to get away or stay with from Hitler (except for maybe Prince Georg of Saxony). Regular joes didn't.


Offline grandduchessella

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2005, 03:16:46 PM »
August Wilhelm of Prussia (the Kaiser's son), Philip, Richard and Christoph of Hesse were very strong Nazi supporters. So was Alexandra of Hohenlohe-Langenberg and the Kaiser's widow, Hermine.

Crown Prince Rupprecht of Bavaria and Albrecht of Wurttemberg were very anti-Nazi.

I don't think Ernst August was--there's still some controversy around that one.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2005, 03:19:43 PM »
Pro-Nazi (usually very sincere in it and not just because of pressure or because 'most' were in the party)

Empress Hermine of Germany (widow of Kaiser Wilhem) unlike husband vocal supporter

Duchess Luise of Anhalt-Dessau (ex-wife of Duke Eduard ) (she was an early financer of Hitler)  

August Wilhelm of Prussia (son of Kaiser Wilhelm II) -- was an SA member and propagandist before 1933 hoping to bring other German royals into the movement

Prince Philipp of Hesse (Cassel)  

Prince Christoph of Hesse (Cassel) -- a Luftwaffe officer who was KIA in 1943. Some say that he was disillusioned at the end but others reject the theory. There were even rumors that Hitler had him killed. I don't know enough to make a judgment.

Prince Wilhelm of Hesse (Philippsthal-Barchfeld)  

Hereditary Grand Duke Friedrich Franz (V) of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.  

Duke Carl Eduard of Coburg--his daughter Sybilla's wedding to Prince Gustav Adolf of Sweden (parents of the current Swedish King) into a Nazi event; this caused a lot of controversy and GV wouldn't let his son attend the wedding and the groom's grandfather, Gustav V wouldn't attend. It was a source of much trouble later on in Sweden, especially during WW2 He was president of the German Red Cross and the institution was basically a Nazi organization. One story said that when inmates of the concentration camps saw Red Cross vehicles drive up to the camp gates, they typically rioted, because the arrival of the Red Cross meant that more people were going to shipped off to the  
camps or to medical experiments. Because of CE's position as a cousin to the British King he had a high profile and even wore his Nazi uniform to GV's funeral in 1936. Was prosecuted and imprisoned after the war and suffered confiscation of wealth and properties.

Prince Stefan of Schaumburg-Lippe -- Nazi diplomat in  
South America
 
Prince Friedrich Christian of Schaumburg-Lippe (Stefan's brother)  protégé of Goebbels and continued to praise his 'genius' even after the war ended  

Hereditary Prince Josias of Waldeck Pyrmont -- member of the SS.  After the war, he was prosecuted and found guilty of war crimes (for his role in the governance of Buchenwald) and sentenced to prison.  

I think that Nicholas of Oldenberg and his sisters Sophie Charlotte (ex-wife of Eitel Friedrich of Prussia) and Ingeborg and Altburg were pro-Nazi as well.

Also when CPss Juliana of Netherlands married Prince Bernhard of Lippe-Biesterfeld the was a good deal of embarrassment over the groom's family who were photographed at pre-wedding festivities giving the Nazi salute (much to the horror of Duke of Kent and Princess Alice of Athlone). Many German relatives were denied passports for the wedding.

More ambiguous in nature--halfhearted support or conflicting reports:
Ernst August Duke of Brunswick (father of Queen Frederika of Greece) -- some sources make him out to be anti-Nazi; others claim he was an early financial backer.  Yet his sons were forcibly discharged from the Armed Forces and his eldest son Ernst August was arrested & detained by the Gestapo in 1944. Still this could've been part of the general anti-Hohenzollern feeling that the Nazis came to practice. The rumors dog the entire family--Queen Frederica is believed still by many Greeks  to have been pro-Nazi--but Frederica was sent to school in England and married and in Greece before the war. Others are probably more knowledgable here.

Crown Prince Wilhelm of Prussia -- he supported Hitler's failed Presidential campaign, but later in the war, Hitler was convinced that the Crown Prince was involved in the 20 July 1944 anti-Nazi coup attempt. Support was probably in hopes of a restoration rather than any ardent beliefs. He did speak favorably to his father though.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2005, 03:21:24 PM »
Anti-Nazi

Crown Prince Rupprecht of Bavaria -- involved in  
attempts to keep Bavaria (which was a major Nazi stronghold and where the infamous Eagle's Nest in Berchtesgaden in located) from being Nazified ; his wife Antonia of Luxemburg was imprisoned in Buchenwald  

Prince Albrecht of Bavaria (Rupprecht's son) -- followed in his father's footsteps; was also was imprisoned in concentration camp as were his sisters

Kaiser Wilhelm II -- while sent Hitler congratulatory telegram, didn't trust the regime and had a note in his will expressly forbidden any Nazi regalia at his funeral

Princes Oskar, Adalbert and Eitel-Friedrich of Prussia (Kaiser's sons) -- Adalbert was living in Switzerland; his brothers were in the military though so were photographed in Nazi uniforms

Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia (2nd son of the Crown Prince) & his wife GDss Kyra of Russia (whose parents were pro-Nazi) -- involved with the anti-Nazi underground in military and people who attempted  
the July 1944 coup.  Gestapo interrogated him after the failed coup but apparently he used charm and his family legacy (as grandson of Kaiser) to convince him of innocence and they wrote a clearing report.
 
Prince Friedrich of Prussia (4th son of the Crown Prince) -- was in England when war broke out and remained as an interned enemy alien throughout the war.  Later, he married an Englishwoman.  

Prince Ludwig of Hesse (Darmstadt)-- married to an  
Englishwoman (Margaret Geddes).  

Hereditary Prince Georg of Saxe-Meiningen -- religious convictions as a devout Catholic  

Crown Prince Georg of Saxony (who had become a Catholic priest) -- was killed on Hitler's orders in 1943

Dukes Philipp and Albrecht of Wurttemberg -- Before  
Hitler became Chancellor, a group of Nazi supporters severely beat Philipp not voting in the early 1930s.  Both brothers were very vocal throughout the war  

Berthold, Margrave of Baden (BIL of Prince Philip) friend of Kurt Hahn, the Jewish schoolmaster who founded Schloss Salem (which Philip attended) and helped him flee to England where he founded Gordonstoun
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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