Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?

[Ilias_of_John]

Eddieboy, you must be elated to my first cousin.He is a direct decendant of Zeus!
You should all meet up up at the next reunioin on Mt.Olympos.

[Carol Jean]

Yes, I know that sounds like I must be some sort of a crazy person, but I  am not crazy nor am I just trying to be something that I am not either. I have done genealogy and worked on my family lines for 50 years of my life, so I have worked on my family history longer than most of you have been living. I have put this book together in good faith that I have done all the research and have put together what I myself consider more proof than most any one else on this planet has about what actually happened to the Lost Dauphin. I know that I will be rediculed and jeered at because of unbelief. I have previously posted a link to the cover of my book, but  inside the book is more proof than anyone else has assembled together. Most everyone just guesses at what happened to the Lost Dauphin and if he was truly King Louis's son and not Axel Von Fersen's son and so on. Enough said.

[Ilias_of_John]

My Dear Carol Jean,
The one question I have is what do you hope to achieve by advertising the fact that you are related to Marie A?
Money?,notoriety, power? Personal satisfaction?
Do a dna with Louis 20th and the problem is solved.
How is ex princess Lisa lately?

[coquelicot]

he was truly King Louis's son and not Axel Von Fersen's son and so on

Of course he was ! About that I have not a single doubt !

[imperial angel]

There is a difference between advertising one's ancestry for motives such as fame, wealth, and money, even if this ancestry is true, and would entitle you to some or all of this if it could be proved, and a difference between having pride in one's ancestry simply for the fact of what it is. To me, the mystery of Louis XVII was solved, albeit tragically, when I read Deborah Cadbury's book on the subject, not sure of the title off the top of my head. You can debate this, but it seems authoritative to me, and that's what I believe until more compelling evidence comes along. There might well still be questions in some people's heads, but not in mine. I didn't know the story of this tragic boy really well until I read that book, so I didn't mean to say I ever had doubts. I guess people can believe what they want to believe, and if that is the truth to them, and comforting, okay- I am not here to condemn or make fun of, but simply to say this case seems already closed by scientific evidence.

[Vasaborg]

Is there any chance that the DNA taken from the embalmed heart was from the wrong Dauphin? Could it have been taken from the heart of the first Dauphin?

[Silja]

Is there any chance that the DNA taken from the embalmed heart was from the wrong Dauphin? Could it have been taken from the heart of the first Dauphin?

Most unlikely because the first dauphin's heart had been embalmed. The heart which was tested and which was proved to belong to a relative of Marie Antoinette's was not.

[Carol Jean]

If you read the book by Deborah Cadbury, you will have read in it that DNA proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the heart of the boy that died in the prison was indeed a RELATIVE of Marie Antoinette's. But you will also read in Deborah Cadbury's book that the test done on the heart DID NOT prove that the boy that died in the prison was Maria Antoinette's son. I also read her book. I also read in her book that a Mrs. Simon, the wife of the man who brutalized Louis Charles said repeaditly that the REAL Louis Charles was smuggled out of the prison in a laundry basket and escaped. I'm quoting from Deborah Cadbury's book. This is not something I am making up. I have asked the question why the DNA test did not prove that the boy that died in the prison was Marie Antoinette's son as half of his DNA would MATCH up with her DNA and the other half would be his fathers DNA.  So science should have told us that half of the boys DNA matched EXACTLY with Marie Antoinette's DNA.

[Carol Jean]

Tell me how a DNA test on Louis 20th would prove anything? If you are correct that the boy that died in the prison was Louis Charles and that his sister did not have any children, then who would have any DNA that would match up with the Royal family beside the children of King Charles X? Just curious.

[NAOTMAA Fan]

I'm not against anyone here, but I just wanted to say, is there not a full lock of Marie Antoinette's hair in some kind of embroidery piece? That could certainly be used as DNA for testing.

[Carol Jean]

Yes, but that lock of hair from Marie Antoinette can only be tested on a son, not the son's son or on down thru that line. It can be tested on the daughter of her daughter and then the daughter of that daughter on down thru the daughters, but when it comes to the male line down, it can only be tested on the son of Marie Antoinette. That is why I have said that the test that they did on the heart of the boy that died in the prison should have sientifically proven that Marie Antoinette WAS his mother and not that it proved that the boy that died in the prison was her RELATIVE. I found this out when I wanted to do a DNA test on myself as I decend from the male line down (if I am correct in what I'm thinking).

[umigon]

Please, Carol Jean, don't take my words as being nasty or rude, as I think you have been very gentle in your accounts and I wouldn't like to break up the general tone of this discussion. Now, that said, I think everyone is free of thinkg they descend from this or that king or queen and it may indeed be true, but I don't think this can be proved by showing photos. Not even by DNA tests that, with centuries of distance would be dubious at the best. I think irrefutable proof of this alleged parentage would be producing letters proved to be real of the people involved in what happened in the 18th century and then a series of birth certificates demonstrating that you indeed descend from this long lost prince.

From what I read and what my general impression is, more importantly after scientists have tested a heart supposed to be that of Louis Charles with Marie Antoinette's hair and having obtained some results of significant positive character, I would say the Dauphin did indeed die in prison. Then, scientific questions put aside, I would think it most difficult for a child so firmly guarded as Louis Charles to not only to scape, but also to survive to the long and difficult journey to safe United States without any noble or important person helping him and writing down somewhere that the Dauphin was alive and safe by his own hand in the U.S.

But then, if you could prove this alleged parentage with real documents rather than with photographs, I would be mostly interested. And I think I wouldn't be the only one...

[Eddie_uk]

Eddieboy, you must be elated to my first cousin.He is a direct decendant of Zeus!
You should all meet up up at the next reunioin on Mt.Olympos.

How is ex princess Lisa lately?

lol, hilarious!!!!

[Carol Jean]

I am not just showing photographs. My ancestor was born in France in 1785 (same year as the dolphin) he escaped the French Revolution and came to America as a stow a way on a boat. His intention was to hide until he arrived in the U.S. He was discovered and someone paid his passage for which he worked for that person seven years to pay him back. I have researched his life from the time he came to America until his death. His two sons descendants BOTH told their descendants the same tradition that he was of the Royalty of France, that his parents had enormous wealth and that both his mother and father were beheaded at the time of the French Revolution. I ask you who had enormous wealth, were the Royalty of France and both the man and his wife (both) beheaded at the time of the French Revolution? I have found a listing of those beheaded at the time of the French Revolution and I did not find any husband and wife BOTH beheaded BUT the King and Queen. I did not set out to find a connection to any Royalty nor am I looking for fame or fortune. This all began as a quest to find out the truth about my ancestor. I just wanted to know who my ancestors were in France. Then I found pictures of the King and Queen and saw the likeness and could not believe what I was looking at.
So, that is what my quest has been all about. How come is it that my Dad, my Grandfather, my great grandfather and my great great grandfather look like King Louis XVI? And why do I have any resemblence to Marie Antoinette unless I am right that my ancestor was the lost dauphin. I have pictures of all of my great great grandmothers and I do not resemble them, but I can see a resemblence to Marie Antoinette. Even my nephew has a resemblence to King Louis XVI. How come?

[Eddie_uk]

Carol Jean, as I pointed out earlier I resemble Adonis oh and Michelangelo David, does that make me a relation of them?? All you have to go on is hear say, he said this, he resembled this etc..it's all very wooly.