Author Topic: Queen Marie Antoinette  (Read 317781 times)

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Offline Mari

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #600 on: February 08, 2008, 02:36:17 AM »
Siblings of Marie Antoinette reacted angrily for the most part and at least two of them were involved in the War against France
 
Marie Carolina Queen of Naples and Sicily:
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The Queen and her husband were horrified, and Maria Carolina used her uxorious husband to bring the Neopolitan and Sicilian armies into the First Coalition against France. Peace was made in 1796.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Caroline_of_Austria also of interest http://books.google.com/books?id=4CaqS7Eva_kC&pg=RA3-PR8&lpg=RA3-PR8&dq=Leopold+II+and+war+with+France&source=web&ots=9tzeaCxtB8&sig=u3nDeIEIL_0FcAptimnj62p9OK0#PPA6,M1

Another Sister: Marie Amalie  Duchess of Parma     very good thread on this already put together look under Italian Royal Families seven down

Sister Marie Christina who married Prince Albert of Saxony: When Antoinette was guillotined in 1793, Christina was reported to have remarked drily that she (Antoinette) ought never to have married. Christina stands testimony to the damaging, long-term effects of parental favourtism and the subsequent (and devastating) sibling rivalry. http://books.google.com/books?id=4CaqS7Eva_kC&pg=RA3-PR8&lpg=RA3-PR8&dq=Leopold+II+and+war+with+France&source=web&ots=9tzeaCxtB8&sig=u3nDeIEIL_0FcAptimnj62p9OK0#PPA6,M1

Leopold II, Holy Roman Emperor her Brother:When Louis XVI swore to observe the constitution of September 1791, the emperor professed to think that a settlement had been reached in France. The attacks on the rights of the German princes on the left bank of the Rhine, and the increasing violence of the parties in Paris which were agitating to bring about war, soon showed, however, that this hope was vain.  War was eventual and Leopold met the threatening language of the revolutionists http://books.google.com/books?id=4CaqS7Eva_kC&pg=RA3-PR8&lpg=RA3-PR8&dq=Leopold+II+and+war+with+France&source=web&ots=9tzeaCxtB8&sig=u3nDeIEIL_0FcAptimnj62p9OK0#PPA6,M1http://books.google.com/books?id=4CaqS7Eva_kC&pg=RA3-PR8&lpg=RA3-PR8&dq=Leopold+II+and+war+with+France&source=web&ots=9tzeaCxtB8&sig=u3nDeIEIL_0FcAptimnj62p9OK0#PPA6,M1http://books.google.com/books?id=4CaqS7Eva_kC&pg=RA3-PR8&lpg=RA3-PR8&dq=Leopold+II+and+war+with+France&source=web&ots=9tzeaCxtB8&sig=u3nDeIEIL_0FcAptimnj62p9OK0#PPA6,M1

« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 02:38:03 AM by Mari »

Offline lori_c

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #601 on: February 19, 2008, 12:01:09 PM »
What sort of reaction did Catherine II of Russia have to this?

Offline Mari

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #602 on: February 20, 2008, 04:31:02 AM »
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The progress of the French Revolution damped all her sentimental enthusiasm for reform. The friend and correspondent of Voltaire and D’Alembert, and the patronage of Diderot, lived long enough to prohibit the publication of French works in Russia.
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the Baldwin Project states that:
Catherine took especial pains to prevent the ideas, which alone made the French revolution possible, from entering into Russia. There was no occasion for this prudence. The great majority of the Russian people did not know of any world beyond Russia; most of them [193] knew nothing beyond the narrow horizon of their own village, and could neither read nor write. The harrowing tales brought by the fugitive French nobles did not tend toward inspiring the Russian aristocracy with sympathy for Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity.

Satisfied that Russia was beyond the sphere of what she regarded as pernicious doctrines, Catherine determined to make the greatest possible profit out of the disturbed condition of Europe. She never ceased to incite Prussia and Austria against the French Republic, but carefully refrained from spending a dollar or risking a man. She pleaded first her war with Turkey, and afterwards the Polish insurrection. She said to Osterman, one of her ministers: "Am I wrong? For reasons that I cannot give to the Courts of Berlin and Vienna, I wish to involve them in these affairs, so that I may have my hands free. Many of my enterprises are still unfinished, and they must be so occupied as to leave me unfettered."

While Europe was engaged in the hopeless task of establishing and maintaining the divine rights of kings, Catherine began a war with Persia. However even if she used this turbulent time to her advantage G.P. Gooch cites in her Book "the Great And Other Studies" that Catherine The Great had a lot of sympathy for Marie Antoinette and what She endured in the French Revolution. Gooch quotes that "She admired her."




Offline Mari

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #603 on: May 09, 2008, 04:32:15 PM »
I found this link with wonderful Paintings of Marie Antoinette as a Baby  in the German School! The site includes a  photo of the  huge blue gray heart shaped  diamond  that She brought with her  into France.
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Marie Antoinette gave the ring to Princess Lubomirska, one of her closest friends. At the Princess's death, without a son as her heir, her huge fortune and jewelry were passed on to her four daughters (three of them were married to members of the Potocki's family).
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  the above quote is from the site.

I wonder why the ring wasn't sent to Marie's Daughter the  Duchesse d'Angoulême?

Also included is this Engraving by Fritsch from a painting by Wagenschoen, 1770.This portrait was  sent from the Austrian Court to the future Louis XVI: it's the first portrait of Marie-Antoinette that Louis ever saw. I know that some of these Paintings are very familiar but hopefully there are a few new ones.

http://www.ladyreading.net/marieantoinette/det1-en.html

Offline Mari

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Offline CountessKate

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #605 on: May 16, 2008, 10:26:51 AM »
The link appears to be to a portrait of Maria Josepha of Bavaria, Marie Antoinette's sister-in-law, not MA.

Offline Mari

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #606 on: May 16, 2008, 02:04:18 PM »
This is an odd little site so search for " Life & times of Marie Antoinette." on the right and click that  from the previous listed link.  Or try the one at the bottom. Both ways hopefully will show the Painting.There are many treasures of the period in photographs and this Painting is one that is apparently only seen at Versailles   :-\ Below is a description of a bracelet but it is the necklace in the Painting I find very interesting.

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At a time when the people had not yet begun to grumble and the avenues of Versailles remained the setting for strolls, parties and intrigues, our House created a bracelet made up of seven cameos and set with rubies for the queen. This rare piece charms and intrigues in equal measure : the finely honed ivory faces sometimes face each other and sometimes turn away, in a silent conversation tinged with eternity.

Given by the Queen to one of her confidantes when the people were sending her to the scaffold, this bracelet would pass through history, revolutions and wars, and be passed down from generation to generation.

Safe from prying eyes and covetous fingers, it today remains in the shadow of a safe to which only the initiated few hold the secret.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/64514569@N00/109251571/in/set-72057594107629448/

« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 02:09:30 PM by Mari »

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #607 on: May 21, 2008, 02:53:43 AM »
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Marie Antoinette gave the ring to Princess Lubomirska, one of her closest friends. At the Princess's death, without a son as her heir, her huge fortune and jewelry were passed on to her four daughters (three of them were married to members of the Potocki's family).
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While reading through the Youssoupoff site I came across the very interesting information to me that not only had that family owned Marie Antoinette's diamond earrings

I've been reading Bernard Morel's monumental work on the French Crown jewels, where he describes in some detail what happened to Marie Antoinette's private jewels (the French crown jewels were handed over to the National Assembly). No inventory exists of what they actually consisted of.  In 1791, they were taken out of France in two lots, both apparently by Marie Antoinette's hairdresser, Leonard, one lot to London and the other to Brussels.

The jewels sent to London were sold and the money given to an intermediary appointed by Marie Antoinette.  The second lot in Brussels were later claimed by Marie Antoinette's daughter, Marie Therese, when she was released after the death of her parents and aunt.  At least some of these jewels were sold shortly after her marriage to the Duc d'Angouleme, and an extensive diamond and ruby parure was purchased by her cousin the Emperor Franz.  The parure was derived from French crown jewels which had been given by Louis XVI to Marie Antoinette, and which she had extensively added to over the years.  It was completely remodelled when the Emperor Franz Joseph married Elizabeth of Bavaria; the jewels remained with the Habsburgs after their exile in 1918 and were either sold or stolen in the swindle which relieved the Empress Zita of many of the Austrian historic jewels.  A necklace  which was put up for auction by Christies in 1971 is considered by Morel to have a fairly convincing provenance, descending from the Duchesse d'Angouleme to her niece the Comtesse de Chambord and thence clearly to the sellers (although the provenance was not absolutely clear, just quite reasonable).  However, Morel felt that the neclace was unlikely to have been in the form in which Marie Antoinette wore it, as it was in an early 19th century design and so was more likely to have been remodelled for the Duchess d'Angouleme from diamonds owned by her mother.  The necklace failed to reach the reserve price and hasn't been seen since - probably broken up and the diamonds sold separately.

Bernard Morel has little confidence in the authenticity of any of the other jewels associated with Marie Antoinette, such as the Yuossupov earrings now in the Smithsonian - there is no provenance and the only earrings which Marie Antoinette was known to have worn bear no resemblence to them.  Similarly, the 'Sutherland' necklace (as it was at one time owned by the Duke of Sutherland) was purportedly owned by Marie Antoinette, but no provenance exists and there is no resemblance to any jewels she was known to have owned.  Morel is equally sceptical about the 'Marie Antoinette blue diamond' ring described above, supposedly given to the Princess Lubormirska by Marie Antoinette shortly before her execution; according to Madame de Campan, however, Marie Antoinette had very little jewellery with her in the Temple and that was not of high value (the blue diamond is a very large and impressive stone).  As Marie Antoinette was closely watched and guarded before her execution, there would have been little scope for securing a large jewel or getting it out and across Europe to a friend.

So basically, Morel thinks there's nothing left of Marie Antoinette's jewels which could be clearly identified as actually having been worn by her in that shape.  I suspect in the 19th century, any jeweller worth his salt would sell impressive eighteenth century French jewels to his clients as belonging to Marie Antoinette - whether they were or not.  Interestingly, Morel says the jewels sold in London in 1791  were identified as German jewels of an older style, so must have been those Marie Antoinette took with her from Austria and perhaps disposed of first because they were unquestionably her personal property, unlike the jewels sent to Brussels which might have been more associated with her French family in her view.

Offline Mari

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #608 on: May 21, 2008, 03:07:19 AM »
Very interesting.  :) When the jewels were sold in England does Morel list a year? or  if any of the Money went back to the Daughter of Marie Antoinette, the Duchesse d'Angouleme from the English sale? Because the money was given to an intermediary appointed by Marie Antoinette... it would be great to know who the intermediary was and the year! I am so glad to know about the ruby and diamond parure purchased by Emperor Franz?

Also if you could are there any of these pieces that you could post?

Offline Mari

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #609 on: May 21, 2008, 04:53:58 AM »
Just for fun I thought I would post this: 1789 Memoir in which Jeanne de la Motte gives her own highly slanted version of The Diamond Necklace Affair concerning Marie Antoinette.    For sale on EBAY for $500.00 I wonder if anyone can verify this is a reputable Dealer?

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Diamond-Necklace-Marie-Antoinette-1789-memoir_W0QQitemZ110252047279QQihZ001QQcategoryZ29223QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Memoires Justificatifs de la Comtesse de Valois de la Motte, ecrits par elle-meme"

By Jeanne de Saint-Remy de Valois (Comtesse de la Motte).

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #610 on: May 21, 2008, 07:28:49 AM »
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When the jewels were sold in England does Morel list a year? or  if any of the Money went back to the Daughter of Marie Antoinette, the Duchesse d'Angouleme from the English sale? Because the money was given to an intermediary appointed by Marie Antoinette... it would be great to know who the intermediary was and the year! I am so glad to know about the ruby and diamond parure purchased by Emperor Franz?

The sale of the jewels in London was in 1791 - there's no evidence about what happened to the money or who the intermediary was.

My scanner isn't working, so all I can give you are some glimpses of the 'unproven' jewels:
Smithsonian/Yussoupov earrings: http://www.gimizu.de/sgmcol/html/marie.html
Lubormirska blue diamond: http://www.jewelleryvaluer.com/diamonds.html
Sutherland necklace: http://www.farlang.com/art/2007-10-24.6594787893/

Offline Mari

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #611 on: May 22, 2008, 02:49:02 AM »
Maybe the last link answered my question. Perhaps Lady Sutherland is the person. Apparently Marie Antoinette gave her a bag of jewels to smuggle out of France with her diplomatic immunity.  Thank You very much....

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #612 on: May 27, 2008, 07:27:33 AM »
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[Perhaps Lady Sutherland is the person. Apparently Marie Antoinette gave her a bag of jewels to smuggle out of France with her diplomatic immunity. /quote]

Lady Sutherland could hardly be the intermediary if she was directly given jewels by Marie Antoinette to smuggle out of France - the intermediary received the money from the sale of jewels by Leonard in London and by inference, transferred the money to Marie Antoinette or kept it - there's no evidence which Morel was able to dig up about what happened to it.   The Sutherland story has no evidence from contemporaries and is unsatisfactory in a number of ways - for if Marie Antoinette had no money or even a watch, how had she managed to save pearls and diamonds?  And even if true, what was Elizabeth Sutherland doing holding on to jewels given to her for safe-keeping, when they should surely have gone to Marie Antoinette's daughter?  If Marie Therese had subsequently told her to keep them, surely this would have become part of an attractive legend?  Morel discounts this necklace as having no provable connection with Marie Antoinette, and certainly the story sounds dubious.

Offline lori_c

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #613 on: May 27, 2008, 02:30:38 PM »
Not to divert from the subject, but I recently read a book by Antonia Fraser regarding Marie Antoinette. It mentions that she is related to the doomed Alix of Hesse through the Hessian line.  Since these two women share many similar life events, could someone explain how they are related?

thanks in advance!

lori :)

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #614 on: May 27, 2008, 05:45:38 PM »
I don't think I ever heard about anything about them being related, but you never know with the royals - they are all inter-related it seems!  ;)