Author Topic: Catherine de Medicis  (Read 53025 times)

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Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #120 on: September 05, 2005, 12:02:39 PM »
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Catherine's youngest daughter, who died when she was only 2 months old.


Yes thanks trentk80 that's the one.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
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Offline umigon

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #121 on: September 05, 2005, 01:09:25 PM »
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Hercule died of tuberculosis, like his brother Charles.




Yes, it was either tuberculosis or a related disease. He died during an attack of the illness in which he was for two hours coughing blood. Then he laid on his bed and died. Contemporary accounts described him as mummified even before he died! Certainly the last legitimate Valois generation was of tuberculose nature (similar to the Tudors!)
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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #122 on: September 05, 2005, 10:11:34 PM »
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I'll tell you, then. She was an intelligent and cultivated woman, who had read the Classics, Machiavelli and was in touch with the new humanistic ideas. Because she brought refinement into France, a country that was still medieval in some aspects (no forks, bad-manners at the table, no personal hygiene...). Because she learnt to survive since she was a small child, because death was around her and starting with her parents, following with her children and finishing with the Guises, nearly everyone who was ever close to her died before she died. Because she believed in peace and tried to stablish many treaties of cult freedom (the 1563 Treaty was not the last one) in a moment in which most monarchs would have simply executed their religious-political enemies (Felipe II, Elizabeth Tudor...). Beacuse she maintained the Crown for her family in the middle of seven civil wars, because she was no religious fanatic in a time when it was quite 'à la mode'. And finally, because she did things every male monarch did in a world in which women weren't suppose to have that strenght .


Satisfied?



No I am not satisfied, again you overlook what has been written of her character, and regardless of what the "Prince" or the FA thinks, the massacre itself overhangs and removes any minimal good that you claim this woman accomplished.  She was an evil, disgusting woman, she poisoned, she murdered, she planned a massacre which up to 100,000 of French citizens were killed in a government sponsored genocide.


Prince this is my last post on this thread, I am going to say this to you, you have behaved in a very heavy handed and interfering manner, if you expect or want free or open discussion then running to the FA with every problem you think you have, threatening me with whatever, let me tell you Prince I am very unhappy with the way you have handled this issue.  So have your love fest on Catherine with no interference from me and no further participation from me, and I will be removing my posts from the french royal jewels thread, and if you have any problems with this, than PM, where I will frankly discuss any issues with you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Mgmstl »

Offline ilyala

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #123 on: September 06, 2005, 06:00:34 AM »
i do not wish to offend anyone but i can't help but notice that  while umigon has kept the conversation on the tone of a simple history discussion, michael has taken it a bit too far with adjectives like 'disgusting' etc.

michael, this is a conversation that should be amicable. i am not a moderator and maybe i have no right to interfear but maybe you should tone down a notch.
'loving might be a mistake, but it's worth making'
ilya


Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #124 on: September 06, 2005, 11:19:53 AM »
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Prince this is my last post on this thread, I am going to say this to you, you have behaved in a very heavy handed and interfering manner, if you expect or want free or open discussion then running to the FA with every problem you think you have, threatening me with whatever, let me tell you Prince I am very unhappy with the way you have handled this issue.  So have your love fest on Catherine with no interference from me and no further participation from me, and I will be removing my posts from the french royal jewels thread, and if you have any problems with this, than PM, where I will frankly discuss any issues with you.


I  specifically asked you to pm me if you had any problems, but you insist of bringing personal issues to bear on this thread, as you have from the start. I am NOT about to tolerate it, and you can say what you like - you're the only one who seems to think this way.

I requested no further discussion of the Massacre, but you persisted. If this is how you feel, and since you seem to think that it is only your opinion that counts, then I don't want you here, and I will say good riddance.

To everyone else, I apologise that these petty arguments have lowered the tone of the discussion. Thanks so much for remaining polite and amicable in the face of provocation.

Prince_Lieven
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Prince_Lieven »
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #125 on: September 06, 2005, 02:29:07 PM »
And thank you Prince Lieven for being so polite and circumspect.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #126 on: September 06, 2005, 02:34:02 PM »
My pleasure Kim - chivalry is neccessary in the presence of a lady like yourself.  ;D

Getting back to Catherine, does anyone have any info on her early life in Italy? Her parents, her relationship with them? Brothers, sisters?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #127 on: September 06, 2005, 02:41:05 PM »
I seem to remember she was an only child, as her parents died shortly after her birth :'(

There may have been illegitimate relatives (most of them became pope eventually!)

I'll have to look it up.
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #128 on: September 06, 2005, 02:43:51 PM »
Thanks, bell.  :)
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #129 on: September 06, 2005, 02:48:44 PM »
Well, I have kept my mouth shut but I have an excellent biography on Catherine by Leonie Frieda. I haven't had chance to read it yet though. :-/
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #130 on: September 06, 2005, 02:52:10 PM »
Poor Kim, tied to her desk day and night.  ;)

Is that the very recent bio that came out this or last year?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #131 on: September 06, 2005, 03:18:21 PM »
I thnk only 2 relatives became Popes- Giovanni as Leo X and Giulio as Clement VII.
There was a fascinating PBS series on the Medici a couple of years ago. I think it is available on dvd. Not sure who produced it- probably BBC !
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Offline cimbrio

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #132 on: September 06, 2005, 03:19:20 PM »
I cannot believe how things get out of hand with some members of this page, clearly there's more to this web site than pure interest in history... If we can't be amicable online, with people we don't even know and may never meet, how can we be civil with people overseas, or our neighbour??? If the inhabitants of Iraq or Biloxi or New Orleans are expecting human relief and civility and decency they should just read this aprticular thread to read how humans can get to behave like complete dirt! I'm a moderator but I'd feel extremely sorry to erase just ONE person; however when I read things like a certain member has been writing posts here, I just think: To hell with it... I suggest that any personal differences two members have should be kept to e-mails, but I'd ask EVERYONE to keep an open mind. What is "disgusting" here is the way we all address each other, the cold and uncivil way certain members (and yes, there is more than one on here, take my word for it) post or send Private Messages to me and the few friends I've made here. I do not look upon this page as my private realm I can govern, and I know we all come from very different backgrounds, we have different opinions... but please, be CIVIL and KIND!If we cannot maintain peace on one bloody (sorry!) page, what's the chance of being happy in our daily life, let alone between Nations... this is turning into a disgusting page, contaminating the memory of many famous, some good, some bad characters in History, and we keep forgetting this. People, log on MSN and discuss your differences there, not here, this is not a friendship page, nor a place to fight. Consider things twice before you post OK????????????????????????????????????????????

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #133 on: September 06, 2005, 04:11:32 PM »
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I  specifically asked you to pm me if you had any problems, but you insist of bringing personal issues to bear on this thread, as you have from the start. I am NOT about to tolerate it, and you can say what you like - you're the only one who seems to think this way.

I requested no further discussion of the Massacre, but you persisted. If this is how you feel, and since you seem to think that it is only your opinion that counts, then I don't want you here, and I will say good riddance.

To everyone else, I apologise that these petty arguments have lowered the tone of the discussion. Thanks so much for remaining polite and amicable in the face of provocation.

Prince_Lieven



Prince you are tiresome to say the least, I could care less about your position as a moderator, and in my opinion you are doing a lousy job of it.   Since you didn't have the COURTESY as a moderator to address me privately instead of publicly with your concerns, after all YOU  supposedly "lead" the discussion, and show your obvious bias, I say goodbye and good riddance to you also.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Mgmstl »

Offline cimbrio

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Re: Catherine de Medicis
« Reply #134 on: September 06, 2005, 09:44:57 PM »
Seriously Michael, you're going too far. You have over 1200 posts on this webpage, are you going to stop participating just for some little qaurrel over someone neither Lieven, Umigon or you ever met? C'mon! Lets be cordial huh? If some things displease you just ignore them, no need to turn it all into a ridiculous imbroglio... if this goes on I'd suggest erasing all messages on this thread that seem offensive to anyone and don't talk about Catherine... she is, I remind you ALL, the main subject here, kee your eye on the ball everyone please????