Author Topic: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs  (Read 69360 times)

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hikaru

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Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« on: August 19, 2005, 06:32:08 AM »
I have read that a young ( or not young) men could visit a girl's place only 7 -10 times, after what they had to make their choice - to marry or not to marry.
I wonder, did it work only for merchants and poor nobility or also for a high class nobility too.
And if somebody could add some information about engament procedure those times . could you do it please?
I think, it could be an  intresting discussion.

hikaru

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2005, 05:27:51 AM »
Dear Alexandr Alexandrovich  and others, of course
Maybe you know some details about the engament procedure in the Nicholas II's russia?

AlexP

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2005, 05:40:09 AM »
Quote
Dear Alexandr Alexandrovich  and others, of course
Maybe you know some details about the engament procedure in the Nicholas II's russia?


Yes, I actually was going to do that Hikaru...Thanks for reminding me.


hikaru

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2005, 06:34:46 AM »
Thank you , sorry for hurring you up

AlexP

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2005, 07:12:24 AM »
Quote
I have read that a young ( or not young) men could visit a girl's place only 7 -10 times, after what they had to make their choice - to marry or not to marry.
I wonder, did it work only for merchants and poor nobility or also for a high class nobility too.
And if somebody could add some information about engament procedure those times . could you do it please?
I think, it could be an  intresting discussion.


Let us consider this from a Russian Orthodox perspective, assuming that both contracting parties were Russian, Christian, and of a high birth.  I only say this because I cannot speak to customs involving Jewish, Muslim and Buddhist engagements, all of which were freely practized in the Empire.

First, one needs to remember that an Engagement itself was a legally and fully recognized status under the Ancien Regime.  Its status was codified in the Civil Law of the Empire.

Once the civil part of the Engagement was accomplished, it was usually formalized by the transfer of a dowry from the bride-to-be or the groom-to-be or from the groom-to-be to the bride-to-be.  Additionally, if a church marriage was not performed within one year of the engagement, the Engagement was considered by law to be null and void.

But additionally, and this frequently happened, if the groom-to-be had sexual relations with the bride-to-be prior to the wedding, and then decided NOT to marry her, the bride-to-be could legally compel the groom to marry her and very often a groom-to-be would be dragged, screaming and kicking, at bayonet-point,  to the Church by force or by soldiers, by the Ohkrana, etc.

Additionally, the impending marriage, after the civil engagement, had to be proclaimed in Church three times over a certain period to see if there were any objections to this marriage.  If the bride-to-be and the groom-to-be came from different parishes, than this was done in each of the respective parishes.  If there were objections that were raised, they could not be on grounds of moral turpitude, as this was considered a matter of private conscience between God, the priest, and the person-in-question but had to be more of the nature of "not baptized", "not Christian", "not Russian", etc., etc.  If any of those three reasons were invoked, the entire Engagement process came to a rapid halt.

From the time of the Engagement and the final publication of the bans, with no objections, no more than two months could pass.

Now it is necessary to consider the religious implications.

In the Russian Orthodox Church, as opposed to the other Orthodox Churches, I believe, but in keeping with conventions in the West that were still observed until the 1500's, there are two distinct services.

There is the Russian Orthodox Service of Engagement and the Russian Orthodox Service of Marriage.  Catherine II made every effort to merge these two services into one but her obvious failure became evident over a period of time.

In the 19th Century, among the Imperial Families, among the High Nobility and among the Great Industrial Families (such as the Mamantovii and the Morozovii in Moscow), it was customary to separate these two services by THREE months.  There were NO engagements during the Great Lent, the Apostle's Lent, the Christmas Lent, the Dormition Lent, etc.

In an Engagement Service in the 19th Century, the bride-to-be and the groom-to-be were met at the parvis of the Church by officiating priest, together with the choir, the "altarnikii" and the "prezlushivikii" and the two witnesses for the groom-to-be (standing immediately BEHIND the groom-to-be) and the two witness for the bride-to-be (standing immediately behind the bride-to-be).  The bride-to-be did NOT wear white at this service, by tradition she was required to wear a shade of blue (the color associated with the Blessed Mother in the Orthodox Church).  The groom in the 19th Century did not wear an Ascot but a daysuit.  Anyway, they were received by the priest, the Great Litany was offered, the Creed was recited, a service of the blessing of the rings was performed, the rings were exchanged, then the Engagement Rings were then placed on the hands of the groom-to-be and the bride-to-be.  At this point, the right hand of the bride-to-be, in the 19th Century, was bound with fine silk ribbon to the left of the groom-to-be and both both hands were then placed on top of the hand of the officiating clergy.  The choir would then sing the hymn "Gradi, gradi" and all three would process around the parvis and the narthex of the Church three times, bowing before the Icon of the Saviour, the Royal Doors, the Icon of the Blessed Mother.  Then they returned to the Paris from the Small Litany and the Dismissal.  The bride-to-be was NOT veiled during this service but she would have worn a very nice hat, or in some cases, a very expensive silk head covering, plain but very dear.

The Service of Engagement then concluded and if there were a Bishop present, or the Emperor as it did happen, a "Many Years" was sung.

At this point, the Church and the Government considered the couple to be half-married and not in a state to marry anyone else...

And then happened would everyone thought might happen...

Marie Feodorovna and her first husband....they were religiously Engaged and Civilly Engaged...they were in a state to marry no one else...and he died..my Dear God..because she was technically now a widow...even though she really wasn't.

Did that produce a major religious calamity and a civil drama...

I will leave it up to our readers to figure out by what religious and civil means the state of Marie Feodorovna's "widowhood" was overcome.

With all of the best from Shanghai, and Hikaru, I hope this helps..


A.A.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AlexP »

hikaru

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2005, 07:47:46 AM »
Yes, thank you very much.
Especially about the soldiers.

hikaru

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2005, 08:12:48 AM »
Dear Alexandr Alexandrovich!
Is it true, that only 7 visits  of girl's houses were allowed for potentional groom ?

AlexP

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2005, 08:29:22 AM »
Quote
Dear Alexandr Alexandrovich!
Is it true, that only 7 visits  of girl's houses were allowed for potentional groom ?


Yes, in keeping with a passage from a Bible concerning the visit of the seven Virgins....

Arleen_Ristau

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2005, 07:42:35 PM »
Sorry but I have just stumbled on to this site.  You asked up above Alex, how Marie F. overcame her "widowhood".....she simply married the next brother in line and became Empress that way.

..Arleen

Kevin_Australia

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 05:12:25 AM »
I just received my copy of the catalogue for the Nicholas and Alexandra Exhibition in Scotland.  In it is a copy of Tuxen's painting of the wedding of Nicholas and Alexandra.  I have seen this many times, but this one is much bigger than the photos I have seen.
My  question is (an unfortunately I can not scan it at the moment) is who is the little girl standing behind King Christian IX.  Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrevna is standing just behind her mother, Marie Feodorevna.  At first I thought it was Helen Vladimirevna, but I thought it funny she is standing so far away from the other Grand Duchesses.

Any ideas?

Kevin_Australia

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2005, 05:18:48 AM »
I just had a look at my copy of Lise Svanholm's "Laurits Tuxen" - in that book King George I of the Hellenes is standing next to King Christian of Denmark, but in the catalogue I just mention he is standing over near the Grand Dukes and the Prince of Wales.    
This one is held in The Royal Collection in London, the one in the catalogue, which was at the exhibition is from the Hermiatge Museum.

But I still do not know who the littel girl is.

Offline Ortino

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2005, 12:07:44 PM »
Perhaps it is Xenia you are seeing standing next to Marie Feodorovna? Olga was about 12 at the time of the Coronation so I can't imagine who else it would be.

EDIT: I found a picture of the painting.

http://www.nicholasandalexandra.com/images/tuxenwedding.jpg

I only see one little girl though, and that's the one standing next to Marie.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ortino »

Kevin_Australia

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2005, 04:59:50 PM »
She's there - between the Archbishop's headdress and Christian's shoulder - look at Nicholas's head and slowly move to the left - Olga is definately next to Marie, and this girl looks the same age which makes me think it is Helen Vladimirovna - Xenia, though small of build, was not that small in 1894.

The catalogue says that this one was a preparation painting for the one in London - I will have a look in my Tuxen book to see how many copies he actually did.

Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2005, 11:17:12 PM »
When I get on my own computer, I'll post a LARGE scan I have of this painting, then we can all debate ^_^.

Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: Engagement, Dowry, Arranged Marriages of the Romanovs
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2005, 11:16:14 AM »
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When I get on my own computer, I'll post a LARGE scan I have of this painting, then we can all debate ^_^.


*grump* Nevermind... I have a huge scan of it, but it's only of N & A ...