Author Topic: Books on French Royals  (Read 136536 times)

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Offline Mari

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #105 on: August 30, 2008, 12:43:58 AM »
is this in the Book? what I am interested in is the last statement!

Quote
As the only child of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette to survive the French Revolution, Marie-Thérèse-Charlotte de Bourbon occupied an extraordinary place in history. Surprisingly, not much has been written about her; she is dismissed by her mother’s many biographers as, variously, “unbearably haughty,” “sulky,” “ill-tempered” and even (from the mordant Stefan Zweig) “mentally inert.” This was a girl who, upon being asked how she would feel if Marie Antoinette were to die, replied, “I would be very glad because I could do as I pleased.
Quote

I was sort of hoping She had referred to her sources when She made her comments. But in her other book titled Mistress of the Elgin Marbles I note that in the Acknowledgement Section Nagel refers to the Family letting her have Mary's Diary and pictures.  as  below

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=9UG2THvlxpkC&dq=susan+Nagel+biographyl&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=8S_MDMMseG&sig=8u2uHfuQXN7E1RnioFqMtOpUYno&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPR10,M1

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In chronicling her subject’s rarefied, peripatetic existence, mostly spent in exile in foreign kingdoms, Nagel dismisses distasteful rumors — that Marie-Thérèse had been poisoned and raped in prison; that she kept a lover after her marriage. One wishes Nagel had done the same with the long-held conspiracy theory that on leaving France, Marie-Thérèse switched places with a half sister and lived out her life in seclusion in Germany. Although Nagel seems to discount the idea of “the Dark Countess” in her preface, and, using handwriting samples, forcefully discredits it in her afterword, she intersperses the book with melodramatic passages about this mysterious figure. Because we never believe the story might be true, Marie-Thérèse’s doppelgänger functions less as a red herring than as a dead one.
Quote


Review from the New York Times the above quote came from:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/books/review/Steiker-t.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/N/Napoleon%20I

Susan Nagel is the author of a critically acclaimed book on the novels of Jean Giraudoux. She has written for the stage, the screen, scholarly journals, the Gannett newspaper chain, and Town & Country. A professor in the humanities department of Marymount Manhattan College, she lives in New York City.


Offline gorgeousbutterfly

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #106 on: September 04, 2008, 07:03:51 PM »
i bought the book the portrait of an average woman by stepfen zweigh. very good book i read a few pages.  and highly recommended to me by others as a must read but there are no references or sources in the back of the book. how do i know where he gets the information?  so he is a trustworthy source himself why?


Offline Mari

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #107 on: September 04, 2008, 11:49:26 PM »
I have not read the Book however Amazon states that the Book contains three citations:
This book cites 3 books:

    * Marie Antoinette by Conrad Bishop on page 5
    * Wisdom And Destiny by Maurice Maeterlinck on page 217
    * Captain Cook by Grove D. Day on page 415
 Is this true? I will let someone else that has read the Book comment further but I don't see any primary sources. The book also gives I believe a firm impression that Marie Antoinette had an affair with Count Fersen. We had quite a discussion on this and a French Historian put forth quite some interesting views. It is under the Maire Antoinette thread.

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #108 on: September 05, 2008, 04:34:18 AM »
i bought the book the portrait of an average woman by stepfen zweigh. very good book i read a few pages.  and highly recommended to me by others as a must read but there are no references or sources in the back of the book. how do i know where he gets the information?  so he is a trustworthy source himself why?

I have that book and enjoyed it.  IMHO, the author is Viennese and so I trust that he has an 'Austrian' view on Marie Antoinette, in context of their country's history, the Habsburg monarchy, etc. I especially liked reading the letters of Maria Theresia to MA on that book; they are very insightful. 

One thing though: I think the author was  a bit  harsh on Maria Antoinette and her sisters, while tending to paint Maria Theresia as all-good or one who did not do anything wrong and that the daughters were simply unruly.  For example, the author did not make allowances for MA's youth/neglected childhood nor the circumstances of her sisters but just criticized them for their mistakes and levity.

There are many books online on Marie-Antoinette you can get for free.  The one by the Princesse de Lamballe is  also a good read.

Hope this helps a bit....
kindness is the magic elixir of love

Offline gorgeousbutterfly

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #109 on: September 05, 2008, 06:27:41 AM »
i bought the book the portrait of an average woman by stepfen zweigh. very good book i read a few pages.  and highly recommended to me by others as a must read but there are no references or sources in the back of the book. how do i know where he gets the information?  so he is a trustworthy source himself why?

I have that book and enjoyed it.  IMHO, the author is Viennese and so I trust that he has an 'Austrian' view on Marie Antoinette, in context of their country's history, the Habsburg monarchy, etc. I especially liked reading the letters of Maria Theresia to MA on that book; they are very insightful. 

One thing though: I think the author was  a bit  harsh on Maria Antoinette and her sisters, while tending to paint Maria Theresia as all-good or one who did not do anything wrong and that the daughters were simply unruly.  For example, the author did not make allowances for MA's youth/neglected childhood nor the circumstances of her sisters but just criticized them for their mistakes and levity.

There are many books online on Marie-Antoinette you can get for free.  The one by the Princesse de Lamballe is  also a good read.

Hope this helps a bit....

i noticed that as well. he was judgemental and harsh yet it was very ingrossing to read. like gossip. lol

where is this lamballe book you speak of?

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #110 on: September 05, 2008, 08:08:45 PM »
I read this book- it is true there are no sources, but I like the way he writes. It is one of my favorite biographies of MA, albeit he is overly critical of her- still, great book, very readable!

Offline Mari

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #111 on: September 05, 2008, 10:08:52 PM »

Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #112 on: September 07, 2008, 08:37:22 AM »
i bought the book the portrait of an average woman by stepfen zweigh. very good book i read a few pages.  and highly recommended to me by others as a must read but there are no references or sources in the back of the book. how do i know where he gets the information?  so he is a trustworthy source himself why?

Dear Gorgeousbutterfly,

Stefan Zweig is a very famous Austrian (Viennese) writer, whose biography of Marie Antoinette is renowned for its high literary value and intuitive psychological insights, if not always for its factual details (writing back in the early decades of the twentieth century, he had much less access to primary sources than most 21st-century historians do - also, he was not a professional historian and never claimed to be - he was first and foremost a novelist). On the whole, IMHO, Zweig's biography is a fairly accurate description of the life of the tragic French queen. But whether it's factually accurate or not, I truly do think it is a "must read" for anyone curious about the life of Marie Antoinette, since it has influenced entire generations of her biographers, up to the present day.

I also have to admit that generally I found Zweig's treatment of MA to be very sympathetic - especially his account of her last days, trial, and execution. But I also thought his insight that she was ultimately "a very ordinary woman" is, if debatable, also highly interesting, because it could be argued that until the French Revolution threw her entire world on its head, MA was indeed very ordinary in her tastes and inclinations - she just had better taste than most women. I had this sensation most strongly when I first visited the Petit Trianon - the house struck me as the most feminine place I had ever been in, perfect and beautiful and, indeed, perfectly and beautifully feminine - in short, the dream house of Everywoman should she have the financial resources and architects and interior designers to realize her dream of a fantasy home.
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Offline Machina XII

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #113 on: September 23, 2008, 05:59:49 PM »
I read about half of the MA biography by Antonia Fraiser. I thought it would be good because the movie was based off it, but it was pretty boring for the most part. There were so many long titiled names I got confused as to who was who(but I suppose that was to be expected, and probably can't be helped). I'd like to try another one written by an author that doesn't bore me quite so much. The one by Princesse Lamballe looks interesting. I read another one of those free onilne books about Louis XVII that I think was written in the 1820's if I remember right. I really like the way it was written. The Author was strongly against the revolution and supported the royal family whole-heartedly, unlike some of the newer books that are in favor of the revolution.
'A day may come when, sorrow o'er thus whispers hope, her son perchance may make that dear one blest once more, and thus avenge himself on France." - Lepitre's poem written for King Louis XVII

Offline LillyO

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #114 on: October 04, 2008, 10:26:16 AM »
I think that the accusations against the Queen and her friends (being lovers) was nothing more than gossip & vicious lies. There was nothing then or now to substantiate this nonsense. Stupid, sick minds make these things up. No more believable than the Queen sexually abusing her son.  Sexual charges are very hard for people to refute - unless they are so ridiculous, as the one's against Marie Antoinette are!

Offline Norbert

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #115 on: October 09, 2008, 04:15:20 AM »
Very true...even the revolutionaries knew they had pushed their lies too far when they made their wicked accusations and The Queen appealed to the mothers in the crowd

Offline Machina XII

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #116 on: November 21, 2008, 11:55:53 PM »
Even though I know that any of Louis XVII's claimants are very unlikely to have any truth in there stories, I have read that Karl Wilheim Naundorff, the Baron de Richemont (Ethelbert Louis Hector Alfred) and others have written memoirs about themselves in the case that they were ever recognized...Just out of curiosity I really want to find these books. I'm curious about how ridiculously far fetched their stories actually get, or how convincing. If you know where I might be able to find copies of these books, or even a good place to look for them, please let me know. Your comments are much appreciated.
'A day may come when, sorrow o'er thus whispers hope, her son perchance may make that dear one blest once more, and thus avenge himself on France." - Lepitre's poem written for King Louis XVII

Offline Mari

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #117 on: November 23, 2008, 03:10:45 AM »
I think this will be interesting to you ( below part II) covers the most important of the claimants! The last two links concern the tracking of the DNA however some odd things came out while these Scientists prepared to do that. In asking for Collectors to bring them artifacts they could use one Collector brought in a handkerchief stained with blood which he stated had been dipped in Marie Antoinette's blood during the guillotining of the Queen!

The Story of Louis XVII. of France
 By Elizabeth Edson Gibson Evans Part II "The Pretenders"

http://books.google.com/books?id=CqwfAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA104&dq=Karl+Wilhelm+Naundorff,&lr=&ei=vRQpSZ-NMY3kywTl49D8Dw#PPA93,M1

Interesting also: Hunting the double Helix: How DNA is...by Anna Meyer
http://books.google.com/books?id=CBxhrHjECoUC&pg=PA188&dq=Karl+Wilhelm+Naundorff,&lr=&ei=vRQpSZ-NMY3kywTl49D8Dw#PPA189,M1


 The  The  Lost King of France which contains  a lot more of the genetic tracking of the DNA sequencing proving  Karl Wilheim Naundorff was an imposter and the use of Marie Antoinette's hair and those of her Sisters.... http://Http://books.google.com/books?id=sLRWafFmngkC&pg=PA246&dq=Karl+Wilhelm+Naundorff,&lr=&ei=vRQpSZ-NMY3kywTl49D8Dw#PPA272,M1

Offline stepan

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #118 on: November 25, 2008, 06:53:43 PM »
If you know German there is an interesting novel based on facts about Naundorff:  Was die Weltgeschichte verschweigt by Robert Widl. I´ve read it and really liked it. The author seems to have made a lot of research on Naundorff and his adventurous life.

Offline Machina XII

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Re: Books on French Royals
« Reply #119 on: December 02, 2008, 09:52:24 PM »
Thanks for all your help! Mari, that first one does look interesting. I have already read the lost king of France, that is how I knew the books about the claimants existed. Sadly, digging through the bibliography didn't get me any closer to getting a hold of the books. I did, however find a few books in french that were kind of close to what I wanted, but my french reading ability is questionable. I probably read at a second grade level, if that. I only know a handful of German words that I've learned from friends so the book stepan suggested is beyond my abilities. I have yet another reason to learn German! :) I was amazed to find that Naudorff's descendants have their own website (in french) www.louis-xvii.com ! I really wish I could read German now!
'A day may come when, sorrow o'er thus whispers hope, her son perchance may make that dear one blest once more, and thus avenge himself on France." - Lepitre's poem written for King Louis XVII