Author Topic: What about...? (Read 100417 times)

RealAnastasia · « **on:** August 20, 2005, 08:15:44 PM »

Yesterday I was thinking in my own experience with AA case and I imagined a new "homework" for all people interested in the same matter here.

I consulted with some experts (being an historian , I know some people who, not being historians themselves, are related to my profession, for example anthropologues, Geneticist, forensic especialists, etc) the AA affair, doing the same work that it was done when AA's trials started in Germany. I showed them photos and information about it to themselves to judge the whole situation. I make myself sure that they never knew the case, not has seen a single AN, FS, AA photo. Of course, all scientist read or know about Anastasia and the final results that said she was really FS, but not all of them know the matter deeply. They doesn't know the insights of the case since it started in the 20's. So, I only show the facts to them. The facts (as they are presented in the "101 reasons threads") and the photos...And of course when they have their own conclusions, I'm ready to tell them: "Well; you analyzed the "Anna Anderson-Anastasia's case and DNA proved that she was Franziska Schanzkovska". They get totally amazed and can't believe it. I have now most of them reading about the fact, purchasing books and searching in the net!

My idea is that most of us here could do the same and then share the results we got. Of course, the idea it's not to show the photos posted in his site by Peter Kurth. At least, not in the order he post them. You must present all the photos mixed up, and put the FS one among them. You must allow him to said that AA was FS, or that FS was...AN(yes; one of my friends mistook FS as if she was AN

). You must also show to them, those photos where AA seems very different from AN: those first AA photos where she has full lips and puffy cheeks. And over all things: DON'T INFLUENCE the experts. Let them choose their own conclusions. Other good things to do is answer him/her things absolutely againts yours opinions in the matter. That would challenge what you knows and it's a very good intellectual excercise. Do as if you are doubting about the case. Never show to him/her that you have your own ideas.

Good Luck!

RealAnastasia.

P.S: Of course, if you are an AA supporter you must not show to the experts all the pics you believes would demonstrate that AA was AN. If, inestead, you are convinced that AA was FS, don't show to them all the photos in which AA was similar to her. Be honest! Mix up the photos. It's the only way to do a good work.

Annie · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2005, 08:53:35 AM »

I would say, by this time, with the DNA results being so well known, it would be impossible to find a credible scientist or expert who did not already know the answer, and would not even bother with it. But try if you want.

CuriousOne · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2005, 12:43:55 PM »

Rule number #1 for any good criminal attorney is to know all the facts, including the DNA, so they don't get a "surprise" which can blow a case wide open in the middle of a trial. Good example is the O.J. Case where the attorney asked O.J. to pull on the glove.

C!

etonexile · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2005, 12:58:10 PM »

Were any other than hard core O.J. supporters fooled by a damp glove(Blood...dew?)...Johnny earned his fee on that piece of theatre....I can barely get into my garden gloves on a good day....But then...America isn't interested in the truth....just image....

CuriousOne · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2005, 01:41:51 PM »

Quote

Were any other than hard core O.J. supporters fooled by a damp glove(Blood...dew?)...Johnny earned his fee on that piece of theatre....I can barely get into my garden gloves on a good day....But then...America isn't interested in the truth....just image....

I think this is a very negitive attitude on our system which works quite well most of the time. Most people forget that all the media garbage most of us saw on television was not seen or heard by the jury of 12 who obviously were unamious in the feelings that there was a "reasonable doubt". Now, you can jump up and down and shout all you want but remember this, O.J. was also taken into a civil suit which didn't results in the favor of O.J. So, there are different kinds of justices which occur. Maybe, not the kind that placed O.J. behind bars for life, but I don't see his image jumping over suitcases in an airport in a organge juice commerical or tons of people going over to his house to have a beer. Our justice system may have some ruff spots and some guilty people to get off but think of all the innocent people who weren't place in prision because all of us are innocent until proven guilty. And, it's true, sometimes the rich do have the advantage, but this is true in just about everything in life, because they can get the "best" attorneys but I think you are under estimating the abilities of all the DA staff all around the USA because the DAs and the assistant DAs I've known, including my own husband, were/are darn good attorneys from some of the best Law Schools have provided us.

C1

RealAnastasia · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2005, 05:53:48 PM »

Evidently, people doesn't want to know the truth. They are convinced that they already know it. Well. Keep your attitude if you like. You'll be happy.

And no; the experts WOULD NOT know the DNA results. You are not judging a law case. You are not presenting the fact to an attorney, but to an anthropologue or a forensic doctor. So they MUST NOT know the results. His conclusions would be biased. You must act as the DNA doesn't exist, in order to view if all the facts you know would contradict it or not. This is the point here, ladies and gentlement. Doing this, I had amazing results and the experts are now studying the case very thouroughly. They are really interested. And be sure that our conversations about AA are not over the lines of "Yes, she was; no, she wasn't", but much more analytic. They are learning things...and me too. I never thought that I knew all about this. As the painter Goya said "I'm still learning". We are learning all our lives.

I will not post the results I got here (well; I betrayed myself, for I posted one of my conversations with professor Kuz in an "101 reasons thread"...but I spoke with 10 experts.

) I realized that I will got the same answers I get all days when I start to read the post. And I'm tired of it. I'm tired about people saying me that I couldn't doubt about DNA results; I'm tired to be called names; I'm tired to hear that we may doubt of things "in Argentina" for , apparently we are not a serious country (Oh...This troublemaker South America, you know!) even if our scientifics are working all world around, and called from the USA'S, France, England, Spain, etc ; I'm tired to read the "which are your credentials?" question when we disagree with some ideas; I'm tired to have some people here doubting about my skills as historian...So; I will not discuss AA case any more. Not with you. If somebody wants to discuss the matter with me, they may email me privately (my mail is not hide. All people knows who I am) or send me a PM here. I will not quit the forum, but no more "important threads" to me. If most of you thinks that the "Last Chapter of the Romanovs" is already written, I don't understand why you keep discussing the matter, and don't let those "stupid threads" to us, "stupid guilible people".

In all cases, you won. I quit this thread. I will spend my time here discussing "Which of the girls are the most beatiful?" or "Was Olga a blonde or a light brown haired girl?"...And in this case, people would said I'm idiot to start "fool threads"

. But I have no choice. My temper is generally good and cheerful, but when I got angry, I'm angry in the real sense of the word. You got me angry. I wanted to share with you the interesting results I had...but the only answer I got is "Why all this if you know already the DNA results?"

So. Keep the DNA stuck in your minds and forget my stupid "latinamerican" propositions. Be happy. I always read that people who doesn't analyze things would be always happy. I never think it was true until some weeks ago, when I became member of this forum.

Warm wishes and good luck.
RealAnastasia.

Merrique · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2005, 06:29:51 PM »

I don't think I have seen anyone call you names or insult Argentina or insult your Latin American propositions.I'm sure that what you have suggested is a very worthwhile thing to do,and if it makes you happy why would you care what others think about it?

But honestly the DNA has proven that AA was not AN and that AA was more than likely FS.Yes I know there was other evidence before the DNA that was pointing to what you believe.But to those of us that believe the DNA all that other stuff is pretty much meaningless now.

I for one find it hard to grasp why anyone has any doubts and continues to believe that AA was AN when the DNA proved 100% that Anna Anderson could not have been Anastasia Nikolaevna.Until someone can prove that these results were wrong I'm afraid they still stand and speak for themself.We do know the truth now thanks to DNA,that's all there is to it.

But like I said if this exercise is something that interests you and makes you happy then continue with it.

Annie · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2005, 06:37:44 PM »

Quote

Were any other than hard core O.J. supporters fooled by a damp glove(Blood...dew?)...Johnny earned his fee on that piece of theatre....I can barely get into my garden gloves on a good day....But then...America isn't interested in the truth....just image....

If OJ had been a poor man he would be in jail today. His lawyers earned their pay, the jurors were prejudiced against the cops already because of the 92 riots, and money talks, as well as the race card and Furman, that helped. I have no doubt OJ did it, or at least paid the guy who did. There are no other 'real killers' or suspects after more than 10 years just as we also have no other suspects by name as to who AA might have been. She was FS.

I also hope that anyone who seriously wants to ask a genuine scientist about this will be thick skinned enough not be become offended and get their opinions insulted, because any specialist will likely be holding back laughter. This is not an insult but a warning as to what you may be setting yourself up for. Scientists are not ones for wild theories or extreme guesses.

AGRBear · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2005, 08:59:28 PM »

Real Anastasia: >>And of course when they have their own conclusions, I'm ready to tell them: "Well; you analyzed the "Anna Anderson-Anastasia's case and DNA proved that she was Franziska Schanzkovska". They get totally amazed and can't believe it. I have now most of them reading about the fact, purchasing books and searching in the net!<<

Hmmmm, this sounds a lot like me when I sugggest people have locked themselves into their comfy box and haven't noticed that there is evidence out here that seems to contradict the DNA. Insead of saying, "Hey, you are right," they just laugh and settle deeper in their comfy box. Instead, they should jump up and say, "Hey, you are right. Let's dig around and see why this is because all the evidence should lead us to the same conclusion. So, how can we help?" But NNNNnnnnooooooo, they don't even want to exaimine what you and others may have found. But that's okay. Don't worry about them. Just keep on looking and let us know what you find and if we can help.

AGRBear

RealAnastasia · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2005, 09:31:32 PM »

I promised to myself not to post in this thread any more, but you were very kind to me, and more than kind: (a thing that is very important to me) LOGICAL. So, I feel my duty to said "thank you", for you really understand what I was trying to said. I'm not saying: You'll find that AA was AN and not FS, or worse than this, you MUST accept that the DNA was wrong and AA was AN. I'm only suggesting that you forget all you know about the matter (even the DNA) and analyze the facts as if you never has read a single word about AA or FS. And if you submit the info you have to an expert or several experts in an objective way, you'll experience a truly work of historical research. I wanted to do a comparison between your research and my own, for I like to analyze things and challenge myself beyond my convictions. But I think it would be impossible, for the word "objectivity" seems to be unknown to some people.

Do you know what I think about AA story: but in the "101 reasons threads", I had no problem to post "reasons" contradicting my opinions. You'll find a great deal of them proving that AA was not AN and some others proving that AA was FS (For this one, I'm getting a difficult time, for beyond the DNA, the similarity of a photo and the recognition of Doris Wingender I have few info, so help me to found more reasons). It's the only way to reach the truth, and the only way to have some intellectual honestity. If we cheat with ourselves,we are very far from the path of the truth.

RealAnastasia.

Annie · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2005, 09:53:43 PM »

Quote

Hmmmm, this sounds a lot like me when I sugggest people have locked themselves into their comfy box and haven't noticed that there is evidence out here that seems to contradict the DNA. Insead of saying, "Hey, you are right," they just laugh and settle deeper in their comfy box. Instead, they should jump up and say, "Hey, you are right. Let's dig around and see why this is because all the evidence should lead us to the same conclusion. So, how can we help?" AGRBear

I have already done that, and found nothing to contradict the dna. There is nothing that cannot be easily explained away in some way. I have been through it all. Even without the DNA, it still looks to me like she was FS.

lexi4 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2005, 10:46:10 PM »

Wow C1. You said that really well!

Quote

I think this is a very negitive attitude on our system which works quite well most of the time. Most people forget that all the media garbage most of us saw on television was not seen or heard by the jury of 12 who obviously were unamious in the feelings that there was a "reasonable doubt". Now, you can jump up and down and shout all you want but remember this, O.J. was also taken into a civil suit which didn't results in the favor of O.J. So, there are different kinds of justices which occur. Maybe, not the kind that placed O.J. behind bars for life, but I don't see his image jumping over suitcases in an airport in a organge juice commerical or tons of people going over to his house to have a beer. Our justice system may have some ruff spots and some guilty people to get off but think of all the innocent people who weren't place in prision because all of us are innocent until proven guilty. And, it's true, sometimes the rich do have the advantage, but this is true in just about everything in life, because they can get the "best" attorneys but I think you are under estimating the abilities of all the DA staff all around the USA because the DAs and the assistant DAs I've known, including my own husband, were/are darn good attorneys from some of the best Law Schools have provided us.

C1

AGRBear · « **Reply #12 on:** August 22, 2005, 06:58:54 AM »

Quote

I have already done that, and found nothing to contradict the dna. There is nothing that cannot be easily explained away in some way. I have been through it all. Even without the DNA, it still looks to me like she was FS.

These contradictions which you claim "easily explained away" AA as being GD Anastasia need to be posted with a SOURCE but more often than not they are not and are just repeats of facts as you remember them.

Memory has a way of gleaning out information it doesn't want to accept or doesn't find interesting or finds no reason to remember thus forgetting some of the other data posters might like to know.

This is true with most everyone including myself because that's just the way the brain works because it can't remember everything despite what some people think they can hold in their "memory box" So, I find it best to find the source, post it and let others find it, read it and then have a good discussion.

And, please, those of you who don't have time, don't have the good fortune of owning all these books or are too lazy to look for the source, ask for help. Many of us are more than willing, when we can find the time, to help with sources.

AGRBear

Annie · « **Reply #13 on:** August 22, 2005, 08:34:08 AM »

Bear, my 'source' is my own common sense and things I have looked into and figured out, and that is much more valid to me than quoting File on the Tsar over and over again. No matter how many times it's posted, it still isn't going to come true, or mean darn thing in the reality that AA was FS and not AN, and that the family was never in Perm, it was all rumors created to hide what really happened. The ironic thing is so many people use that story to say they were hiding them being alive, but really, they were hiding them being DEAD because at the time they didn't want anyone to know they had killed the whole family.

I would get into what I mean by my position,but I have already posted it time and time again and it does no good. And for someone who is hung up on sources, you always ignore the most important "SOURCE" of all, the DNA!

I am very flustered over this. If I want fairy tales, the Brothers Grimm movie is coming out next week.

AGRBear · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2005, 10:19:52 AM »

Quote

....[in part]....

.... I feel my duty to said "thank you", for you really understand what I was trying to said. I'm not saying: You'll find that AA was AN and not FS, or worse than this, you MUST accept that the DNA was wrong and AA was AN. I'm only suggesting that you forget all you know about the matter (even the DNA) and analyze the facts as if you never has read a single word about AA or FS.
RealAnastasia.

....

Some of you may not like to go back to the very beginning and start all over but this is what the better detectives do when a great deal of evidence does NOT lead them to the same conclusion.

If you do not wish to partiticpate because you have felt you have accomplished a satisfactory answer why the a lot of the evidence doesn't match the DNA test, so be it. Real Anastasia isn't demanding that you do. This thread, however, is an excercise she'd like to do with those who are interested.

As to comment on the up and coming movie Brothers Grimm, I do hope to see it and laugh my head off ...... sooooo, if you see beaar's head rolling by, please, send me an e-mail and tell me where you saw it so I may find it when I need it, again....

AGRBear

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