Author Topic: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants  (Read 80389 times)

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Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2007, 03:09:05 PM »
It was an interesting experience, but I was so unhappy afterwards, because those people are always simply too busy for any longer contact or writing...The contact was born, because I was searching for his distant cousin Sari, who was once a childhood friend of my former history teacher (But this lady does not have any interest in a contact what really is a pity... :-\)  Geza wrote me in a Mail, that the Hungarian line of the Habsburg does live like normal other people today (since 1945 he said), and that his parents had nothing after the war, and had to start with everything from new, like many of his relatives. He also said that the hungarian Habsburgs do not have secretaries today or something like that. At the beginning, when I wrote to him the first time, I asked him for this because I was amazed that the personally answered so quickly. I think Geza travels a lot because of his his faberge presenations. About others of the branch I know only very little, the site I mentioned gives mostly biographical and picture information, but no further details on the lives of the people. For the case that I find more, I will tell you.
Until now there was not much interest in the branch, so I thought, but I found it indeed interesting that many of the todays hungarian Habsburgs descend from the late king of Saxony, and (because of his wife Maria Luisa of Tuscany) also from the Habsburg- Tuscany branch as well as from Sisi and Franz Joseph.

Good evening :) :)
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Kaiserin_Sissi

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2007, 08:53:53 AM »
I'm searching in particulary pictures and photo of Archduc Ladislaus ( Lazslo) son of Archduc Joseph Karl Ludwig and Clottilde von Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha ( Thank you Synnadene for your help  ;)).

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2007, 02:09:10 PM »
As far as I know the site www.royaltyguide.nl also bears a picture of Ladislaus. I find the brothers all very similar...I hope it's the one you mean. Have to look there once again by myself... ;)
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Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2007, 02:28:41 PM »



Here is the picture of Ladislaus, which I found at MARDAM. It's a cute boy, but this is the only picture I know. Does anybody have more or does anybody know, why he died so early? His brother married Sisis granddaughter Augusta (daughter of Archduchess Gisela) and became father of the last "Joseph" of the line (Joseph Franz, who died in 1957) himself father of Géza von Habsburg.
Interesting is the great family resemblence, because Joseph Franz had a brother Ladislaus, too, and he looks almost the same, like the other one.



What do you think? I wonder, if there might be any confusion, and both picture do show the same Ladislaus, the younger or the older one. I am not sure, because they look too similar for me. Your opinion?? ::)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 02:30:50 PM by britt.25 »
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Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2007, 12:19:33 PM »
The very first Joseph of the line was Joseph Anton (1776-1847) was the ninth child and seventh son of emperor Leopold II. (1747-1792) and Maria Ludovica of Spain (1745-1792). The parents of Leopold II. were indeed empress Maria Theresia and Franz Stephan, Joseph Anton was therefore a grandson of Maria Theresia and a brother of emperpor Franz II./I.   
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Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2007, 01:54:16 PM »
Hey ...

I think there's a little bit confusion about the two Archdukes who were called Ladislaus or László.

LADISLAUS Philipp Maria Vincenz (1875-1895)
son of Joseph Karl and Clotilde Princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha

LADISLAUS Luitpold Joseph Anton Ignatius Benedictus Bernhardus Maria (1901-1946)
son of Joseph August and Auguste Princess of Bavaria

In the book Briefe Kaiser Franz Josephs and Kaiserin Elisabeth II I found some information about László's Early death:

05. 09. 1895: Den armen László haben seine Eltern, die nach Kis Jenö geeilt waren, ins rothe Kreuz Spital nach Ofen transportirt, wo er die beste Pflege findet. Der Knochen des Schenkels ist durchschossen und im Spitale wurden die losen Knochenstücke entfernt, wobei László viel Ruhe und Muth zeigte. Der Arme ist wirklich zu bedauern und die Heilung wird im besten Falle lange dauern.
07.09.1895: Der Tod des armen László wird Dir auch leid gethan haben. Er war ein so guter unterhaltender Bursche und mußte so ein trauriges Ende nehmen. Er ist an Blutvergiftung gestorben, ich dachte aber nicht, daß es so schnell gehen würde. Bei der Operation der Entfernung der Knochensplitter, die sehr schmerzhaft war und wobei er nicht narkotisirt wurde, war er so tapfer und ruhig und gestorben ist er auch mit Ergebung nach andächtigem Empfangen der Sakramente. Er wird in der Gruft in Ofen begraben, der Tag ist aber noch nicht bestimmt.
08.09.1895: Die Beisetzung Lászlós ist erst am 11. in der Ofener Gruft, nachdem die Leiche in der vorhergehenden Nacht in aller Stille aus dem Spitale in die Schloßkirche gebracht sein wird.

I'm sorry, but I'm too lazy to translate these lines right now. Franz Joseph is talking about a gunshot wound. As far as I know, the Archduke went hunting and shot himself into his leg inadvertently.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2007, 01:57:02 PM by MarieCharlotte »
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Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2007, 05:30:30 AM »
Hello Marie Charlotte,

Thanks for your quotations from the letters, I think you already quoted from those letters of Franz Joseph once (concerning another topic), and it really seems that they contain a lot of very rare informations about happenings in the inner imperial family, especially private things like deaths of close people/relatives etc. The book must be very interesting!!! I never knew anything about the reason for the early death of the young Archduke. It's really something very tragic that he shot himself during a hunt and then died of a sepsis after the operation, I always think with the todays medicine this would not happen anymore (or at least not in so many cases like in earlier times)
It's indeed confusing with the two Archdukes with the same name, but yes, I was mentioning the two, who you mentioned as well (with the correct dates, which i did not do!) The site of Mardam said that the first picture, which I posted, shall be the first Ladislaus, whose death you described, and the second one shall be the later Ladislaus, his nephew, I really think they look too much alike and it might be that the two pictures are the same Archduke. ;)

Hello Eric,

Where will the article be published?  ;) And when?
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2007, 01:06:50 PM »




You are right, Britt. On both of these pictures you can see Ladislaus, son of Joseph August and Auguste Princess of Bavaria. I have the equivalent picture of Archduchess Sophie (Ladislaus' sister) to the first one. The second one is a detail of a family group showing Auguste and some of her children.

I also have pictures of Lázsló (1875-1895), but I got them from synnadene and I am not sure if she wants to share them in the forum as they are really rare.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2007, 08:53:05 PM »
The article was published by the old Royalty Digest. You can find it in its back issues. I also gave it to Ricardo Mateos as info on his new book on Elizabeth's daughter Queen Marie Cristina of Spain. Always fasinated by how Elisabeth almost married Emperor  Franz Josef, but remained a force to be rackened with in the Vienna Art scene.  ;)

Rudolf_II

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2007, 02:56:53 PM »
The previous Palatine of Hungary to Archduke Joseph was his elder brother Alexander Leopold (1772-95).  I've not heard any more about him apart from the fact that he was accidently burned to death.  What exactly were the circumstances?

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2007, 04:23:30 PM »
The previous Palatine of Hungary to Archduke Joseph was his elder brother Alexander Leopold (1772-95).  I've not heard any more about him apart from the fact that he was accidently burned to death.  What exactly were the circumstances?

There should have been some fireworks in Laxenburg (castle near Vienna) on July 12th 1795 in honour of Alexander Leopold's sister-in-law Empress Maria Teresa. Alexander Leopold was killed while he made preparations for this event.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2007, 04:53:01 AM »
Hello Eric,

The article sounds interesting, maybe I should try to get them....thanks for the info...

Hello MarieCharlotte,

Thanks about the confirmation that both pictures show the son of Auguste of Bavaria. Maybe it should be told to the site MARDAM. So you're sure that also the first picture shows the son of Auguste? I suppose. If you have pictures, you can maybe compare them to this.
Also thanks for the info of the early death of Leopold Alexander, it really sounds tragic.. :-\.
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2007, 02:58:18 PM »
 I think, both boys have a lot of Auguste in their faces, especially the eyes are very similar. But Josephs's son Géza, who I once already mentioned, has a much different appearance (so for me), it might me a part of his mother, Anna Monica of Saxony, whose mother was also a Habsburg, Maria Luisa of Tuscany....
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 04:30:41 AM by Svetabel »
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2007, 08:19:53 PM »
Augute was Gisela's daughter is it ? She looked so much like Gisela.... ???

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Josef Karl (1833-1905),his family and descendants
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2007, 03:29:08 AM »
Yes, I also think that Auguste is very similar to her mother. I have seen different pictures of her and the faces are very similar. But it's interesting that the mother of Gisela's Wittelsbach husband also had a Habsburg mother himself, Auguste Ferdinanda from the Tuscany line. 
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)