Author Topic: Liliane Princess De Rethy  (Read 82178 times)

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frederika

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Liliane Princess De Rethy
« on: August 22, 2005, 02:02:25 PM »
was Princess Liliane the queen frederika of Belgium or just a victim of history?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by frederika »

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2005, 02:16:18 PM »
What exactly is your question, Frederika?

Here is a little info on Liliane:

She was born on 28 November, 1916 in Highbury, London, the daughter of a fish trader from Ostend and his wife who were living in England during WWI. In 1926 her father became Governor of a region of Belgium and as a result she met the widowed Leopold III frequently (his wife died in 1935).

On September 11 1941, the King married Liliane. It was announced that Liliane would never be Queen of Belgium - she was instead styled Princess de Rethy, though she was created a Princess of Belgium. Their children were to haved no dynastic rights and the marriage was considered, to all intents and purposes, to be morganatic.

The public were furious, and during WWII Leopold was suspected of Nazi sympathies.

When Leopold's son Baudouin became king, some people worried he was in love with Liliane, 14 years his senior.

Liliane died on June 7 2002.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

frederika

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2005, 04:57:13 PM »
my question was was she very unpopular in belgium and was it just because she was being compared to queen astrid or was her unpopularity unfounded?

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2005, 05:03:44 PM »
Quote
my question was was she very unpopular in belgium and was it just because she was being compared to queen astrid or was her unpopularity unfounded?


Hmm . . . interesting. Yes, she was very unpopular, and I would say she mostly suffered from comparison with the well-beolved Queen Astrid. The people said to Leopold, "Sire, we thought you had your face turned towards us in mourning. Instead you had it hidden in the shoulder of a woman."

Also, as Leopold's popularity decreased during and after WWII, so did hers by association.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

frederika

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2005, 03:34:05 AM »
she was not seen in public after his death in 1983. i thinj she had a bad relationship with her daughter who moved to the US and publicly denonced her

Offline Lucien

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2005, 03:33:10 AM »
Quote

Hmm . . . interesting. Yes, she was very unpopular, and I would say she mostly suffered from comparison with the well-beolved Queen Astrid. The people said to Leopold, "Sire, we thought you had your face turned towards us in mourning. Instead you had it hidden in the shoulder of a woman."

Also, as Leopold's popularity decreased during and after WWII, so did hers by association.


Besides that she had a way with intrigues,and tryed to influence the (in the early fifties)still very young King Baudouin,she more or less took over the role of "First Lady",until Boudewijn married Fabiola.
Upto then both Leopold and Lilian lived at Laeken as was Boudewijn,but as there was,in a very early stage,tension rising between the two Ladies,they were more or less "forced"to move out,and Lilian took along what she could in terms of fe art,furniture and...jewelry.Lilian de Rethy didn't miss a single event in order to glitz and glam till then,she revelled in it.

Moreover she was a controle freak towards her children,that eventually alienated them from her.And to her dispair and frustration,all three married "commoners"instead of members of,preferably, Reigning Houses.As they say,there's something good in every person,it still is hard to get around Lilian de Réthy,néé Baels,in order to find exactly that.History sofar doesn't judge favorably towards her.She now rests in the Royal crypt in Laeken,next to both Leopold and Queen Astrid.She finally is among Royalty,but not quite as she intended.

Btw,the tomb of Queen Astrid is still adorned with flowers,the late Queen is still revered,as is King Baudouin,as his tomb too carries a huge heart of roses(at least it the last time I was there)from Queen Fabiola.
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Wettin

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2005, 05:56:03 AM »
Yes, it´s very difficult to live in the shadow of someone who is considered a saint and Queen Astrid is still regarded as one. But Leopold´s children were happy with Liliane who brought light into their somber world. What the belgians among other things accused Leopold of was that he capitulated to the germans much too early and he broke the Belgian law when he married Liliane Baels. They were first married religiously by the then primate of Belgium cardinal Van Roey of Mechelen (Malines) and then civilly. It should have been the other way around and the marriage was kept a secret for some time. Who then could count days realized that Liliane was pregnant already before the altar.
I don´t  think Boudewijn was in love with Liliane. He was just very fond of her.  When he was king and the pressure upon him grew to marry he asked his friend cardinal Suenens to help him look for a Spanish girl. Via a proxy and the papal nuntio (ambassador) in Madrid he found doña Fabiola de Mora y Aragon. She first refused for a long time since she thought there were more worthy and royal women and she had for years felt the vocation of becoming a carmelite nun. Actually Boudewijn wanted to enter a trappist monastery before he was forced to become king after his fathers abdication. It took at least one pilgrimage to Lourdes before Fabiola gave in. This fact COULD be an explanation to why Queen Fabiola never has worn a lot of jewels and only papal decorations. And ONE explanation to the clash between Leopold-Liliane and Boudewijn-Fabiola could be the latter couples religious fervour.
When I´ve looked into Sotheby´s auction catalogue of the estate of the deceased Liliane I recognize some of the furniture from Leopold´s and Astrid´s home at Styuvenberg so they must have been Leopolds private property.
A token that there still was a bond between father and son I think is the fact that Boudewijn openly cried at his fathers funeral. The witness given by a former prostitute from Antwerpen, who was saved by Boudewijn,  at his own funeral I think is a sign of Boudewijn´s active religious life.


« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 02:41:45 PM by Svetabel »

frederika

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2005, 05:08:49 AM »
did Lilian have any grandchildren?

Rebecca

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2005, 03:30:19 PM »
Quote
did Lilian have any grandchildren?




I think there are two grandchilden of Liliane: Alexandra Moncada, born 1998, and Leopoldo Moncada, born 2001. They are the children of Liliane's daughter princess Marie-Esmeralda and her  husband, Salvador Moncada, who is from Honduras (he is a scientist in pharmacology, I think, but maybe I'm wrong).

The other two of Liliane's children, Alexandre and Marie-Christine, don't have any children, at least I have never seen in any source that they have. Marie-Christine's first marriage was very short.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2005, 11:35:14 AM »
Liliane was not popular with the children of King Leopld at all. After Boudewijin married Fabiola and went on their honeymoon. They returned to see the palace stripped bare as Liliane took the furniture from the palace back to her place (including paintings and object de art). She also sold Queen Elisabeth's Cartier tiara quietly, before the family could buy it back from her. A lady of spite really.  :(

YaBB_Jose

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2006, 05:00:11 PM »
Can anybody post some photos of her, please ?

The late Count of Paris said she was the most beautiful woman of her times.

Prince_Christopher

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2006, 11:05:37 PM »


Liliane with Princesses Marie-Christina and Marie-Esmerelda


Another one with her daughters









« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Prince_Christopher »

Prince_Christopher

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2006, 12:20:12 AM »
She looks more like a movie star than the wife of a king....but she was certainly beautiful in her youth.

polignac

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2006, 12:48:57 PM »
I almost do not know nothing about her, unless that she was a beautiful women that married with the king Leopold III of Belgium...

Yseult

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Re: Liliane Princess De Rethy
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2006, 01:20:13 PM »
I think she was unlucky: she caught the eye of a king who had lost tragically his first wife, the swedish princess who became the most popular queen in belgian history. Astrid was a legend, and the remarriage of Leopold with Lilian seemed an affrent to her memory. So, people rejected Lilian as the new consort of Leopold.