Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives

[Svetabel]

http://www.podstanitskiy.ru/files/images/commongallery/photogallery/Chardonne-Bourbon.jpg

[beladona]

I have read in memories of Archduke Leopold Salvator (later Leopold Wölfling), that he fell in love with sister of Don Jaime, Elvira, and wanted to marry her. But the emperor did not give permission to second connectionfamily in his family with "Carlists" (Blanka, sister of Elvira was married to another Leopold Salvator, from Tuscany branch of Habsburg family)

[Norbert]

Elvira led a colourful life and certainly did not seek a crown. She eloped with the painter Filippo Folchi and had three natural children who took the name of Borbon.
1) Georges who was killed in Greece in 1941....I believe he married and had a daughter?
2) Leon Fulco 1904-1962 married 1934, Ana Gregoria Vasquez y Carnzosa,  dau of the Colombian Ambassador. They had 6 children I have no details ?
3) Filiberto (twin) 1904-, married Lucia (sister of the above) they had 8 children.
a. Maria Elvira 1942-2003 married secondly 1967, Ronald Dupin and had 3 children by him. I have no details of her first marriage?
b. Jaime 1943-
c.  Francisco 1944-
d.  Fernando 1946-
e.  Antone 1948-
f.  Felipe 1950-
g.  Ana 1951-
h.  Carlos 1952-

[tecklenburg]

Hello everybody

I read that Infant of Spain Don Juan Count of Montizon was a carlist pretender to the throne of spain. he then abdicated in favor of his son Don Carlos VII.
Don Juan became head of the house of bourbon as Jean III when his step-brother Count of Chambord died
he would have probably been a liberal king.
He & his wife Archduchess Beatrice separated and Jean III Lived in England with another woman.
Did he really have two daughters at that time? What were there names? Montaigu like the pseudonym he may have chosen? Or Bourbon?
Someone knows?

[Mari]

According to this source he had a Son and a Daughter!

After his abdication Juan lived mostly in England in the town of Hove near Brighton. He used the name Mr. Montagu  He lived with an Englishwoman with whom he had a son and a daughter.

Ana de Sagrera, La Duquesa de Madrid: Ultima Reina de los Carlistas (Palma de Mallorca, 1969), 507.

I have not been able to find their Names as yet! 

[REMI]

He lived et died in a house 25 Seafield road in Hove near Brighton

[tecklenburg]

thanks remy !

If you get any infos tell me

Maybe HRH The Count of Montizon has still descendants in england today.
He probably gave them traditional names of his family. Maybe Juan/John for the son (like him) & Francisca for the daughter (like his mother...)
Maybe dona Francisca of Braganza knew her grandchildren ? The Infanta died in england in 1834...

I read sometimes in souvenirs of the court of carlo-alberto by a french embassador (see gallica) that The Count of Montizon & his younger brother Infant Don Fernando served in cavalery of the kingdom of sardinia. In which regiment?

Does someone know about the very short life of this Infant?

[REMI]

Don Fernando de Borbón y Braganza, "carlist" infante of Spain followed always his parents, first in France from 1839 to 1845, then in Venice till 1848 and Trieste, in Austria at that time. He was always with his elder brother, Carlos Luis. I don't know if he served in Sardinia... I don't think so because the conflict between Austria et Sardinia.
He died to the typhus january 2d 1861 in Brünnsee (Austria) at Duchess of Berry's, eleven days before his brother Carlos Luis and his sister-in-law, Carolina of Bourbon-Two Sicilies.
He is buried with all his family in the chapel San Carlo Borromeo of the Cattedral San Giusto of Trieste (in Italy nowadays).

REMI

[Norbert]

On the capture of his brothers in 1860 he became the Carlist King Fernando VII

[REMI]

On the capture of his brothers in 1860 he became the Carlist King Fernando VII

Sorry, dear Norbert... I'm afraid you're mistaken. Don Fernando, the third son of Carlos Maria Isidro (CARLOS V) never became Fernando VII...or Carlist king Fernando VIII (!).True King Fernando VII (1784-1833) reigned between 1814 and his death.
Don Fernando went with his elder brother Carlos Luis (Carlist king "CARLOSVI") when he decided to lead a new Carlist rising. The two Borbon land at San Carlo de la Rapita, near Tortosa, in Catalonia on april 21 1860.Both were captured immediately by the troops of their first cousin Queen Isabel II, then liberated two days later in exchange for their renunciation their claims to the throne of Spain.
On june 2, their brother Don Juan who played no part in this 1860 Carlist rising published a declaration affirming his accession as Juan III, King of Spain!
But once he had left Spain, Carlos Luis declared that his abdication was invalid since he and his brother Don Fernando has been forced to sign against their will...Juan refused to accept his brothers's declaration.
So, until the unexpected death of CARLOS VI the following january, the 13th, there were two claimants to the spanish throne, Carlos Vi and Juan III...No don Fernando who died on january 1st

REMI

[Norbert]

Thanks Remi for clearing that up..I thought the minute the princes rennounced their rights Ferdinand would have suddenly become king

[tecklenburg]

Big thanks the franco-iberian site give us many informations.  John Montaigu or John Montfort ? experts like you norbert & remy have maybe an opinion...

[REMI]

All that lets me a little puzzled...Noël Mac Ferran is grounded on censuses. But who can be sure Charles M.Fort was really the count of Montizon? The prince liked to live incognito and changed often his names. The information given by censuses  are too much unprecise, at least. Noël Mac Ferran himself says:" In 1861, census, however, this  is recorded as first name M.fort (presumably a mishearing on the part of the census taker)" !!!. Mexico, Italy... I'm afraid there are many mishearings in that story.
Other thing: Guy Stair Sainty says that " the 5th Earl of Ashburnham had paid for the  don Juan's funeral and transfer of remains and these of his royal wife to Trieste for interment at Frohsdorf".
Ridiculous! Montizon' remains were transferred to Trieste on board of a man-on-war sent by Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria!
Never there was talk to bury Count of Montizon in Frohsdorf. His brother-in-law, count of Chambord himself, is buried in Gorizia.
As for his spouse; Beatrice, archduchess of Austria Este, she died in 1906 in the convent of Carmelite nuns in Graz , Austria where  her grave is too!

REMI

[Norbert]

Very interesting though eh? certainly worth more research but I agree with Remi . I hardly think the Count would have " married" and fathered a family in Hove without some comment and then left them destitute.

[stairsainty]

In response to Remi, my recent post on the Franco Iberian was written from memory, hence my error as to the burial place of don Juan. However, I can assure him and anyone else interested that the 5th Earl of Ashburnham was the first to be informed of don Juan's death, as he was paying the doctor, that it was he who sent cables to don Juan's son's informing them of their father's death and it was he who made all the arrangement with the undertaker. There is an extensive correspondence (and the original bills, with notes regarding their payment) concerning the undertaker's mission in accompanying the body of don Juan to Trieste; as I recall (and I read these letters 2 years ago while looking for something else) the journey was by rail ; perhaps the Austrian ship collected them at Marseille, Genoa or Venice, I do not recall.

It was to Lord Ashburbham to whom don Juan's son turned for help and the son's name was John Bonneville; of this I am certain - there are a number of letters from Bonneville to Ashburnham asking for financial help, which he provided, ending with a letter descriving Bonneville's hopes for his career in the film business, to which he had entered after working for a camera shop and photographer.

There is an extensive correspondence in the Ashburnham archives, kept in Lewes, Sussex, between the Earl and the duke of Madrid (who conferred uipon him the Order of the saint-Esprit (the original letter, in Spanish, is in this archive), with don Alfonso Carlos the latter's brother, with don Jaime, Duke of Madrid, as well as with dom Miguel, duke of Braganza, and Alfonso Count of Caserta. Ashburnham provided assistance of one kind or another to all of these and  financed a ship, the Firefly, which was to carry arms to the Carlists (1899)  but which was arrested and the cargo seized. Ashburnham tried to arrange for Carlos Duke of Madrid to have an audience with Queen Victoria, but the form of the letter requesting this wasd refused by the Queen's private secretary. Similarly he tried to obtain an audience for Jaimes, Duke of Madrid, with George V, but this was refused for similar reasons. The British royal family was unwilling to make any kind of gesture towards the Carlist claimant, even when couched as head of the House of Bourbon.

For anyone interested in the history of legitimism or jacobitism, this archive is a crucial resource. What remains a puzzle is my recollection of the second body, of a lady who had been interred at Havant, in hampshire, and whose body was disinterred to be sent along with that of don Juan. I had not checked the date of his widow's death so mistakenly assumed she had predeceased him and it was his wife; evidently it was not, but who was she? - There is a great deal of correspondence between the priest-in-charge of this church and Lorfd Ashburnham, in which the priest too was asking for money.

Guy Stair Sainty