Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives

[Norbert]

 Interesting, so you do believe that he fathered a family in the UK ? we have been given the details of two relationships ...Ellen Carter born 1838 with two children Helen and John OR Eliza born 1825 in France with issue John Bonneville and Elize.

[belianis]

I vaguely recall that the widow of one of the Carlist pretenders was once arrested for shoplifting, she was thought insane when she identified herself as the widow of the King of Spain, and was set free when a Spanish diplomat posted her bail. What is the full story, please?

[REMI]

I vaguely recall that the widow of one of the Carlist pretenders was once arrested for shoplifting, she was thought insane when she identified herself as the widow of the King of Spain, and was set free when a Spanish diplomat posted her bail. What is the full story, please?

What widow and what carlist claimant have you been talking about???

REMI

[Yseult]

Can you provide more details, belianis? This sounds like a complete nonsense to my ears...

[umigon]

It was Maria Berta de Rohan, who died penniless. I can't recall the story exactly but sure, it was her.

[Mari]

These were the events going on...
 Princess Berthe de Rohan (1860-1945
She bore her husband no children
and died in poverty in Vienna, in the last months of the Second World
War, just as the city was falling into the control of the Soviet
invaders. I'll look around more when I have time perhaps someone else will have the details by then.

[Marc]

What else has she done to be treated as ''evil''?

[Yseult]

What else has she done to be treated as ''evil''?

Good question, Marc...
To be honest, I never had read so much about Bertha. But for all that I´ve read, she was not a fair woman. She knew well how to dominate her husband from the first days of their relationship; the carlist party has nothing good to say about the influence of Bertha on Carlos. But I think the question is that she was not a tender step-mother. She was more like the step-mothers of the fairy tales. It was specially right concerning Jaime, the only male son of Carlos. Bertha was against the engagedment between Jaime and princess Mathilde of Bavaria. Later, it seems that Bertha told to her husband that Jaime had been trying to bed her. Jaime broke up the ties with his father and step-mother after this...

[belianis]

It was Maria Berta de Rohan, who died penniless. I can't recall the story exactly but sure, it was her.

The story appears in an issue of HISTORIA Y VIDA dedicated to the successors of Carlos Maria Isidro, on a chapter dedicated to the Carlist queens. What appears is very brief: the Viennese police caught her stealing in a market; they thought she was loca when she identified herself as the widow of the King of Spain, but still called the Spanish embassy just in case; a diplomat posted her bail, and she was set free.
'tis little more than a paragraph, which is why I'm asking for further details, such as the name of the diplomat who behaved like a true hidalgo=gentleman.

[Yseult]

The history is great, belianis But, to be honest, I don´t believe the diplomat had the behaviour of a true gentleman, but the behaviour of...a diplomat! He was attached to the spanish embassy...so I suppose he used spanish money to pay the bill. And...frankly, I don´t understand well why we -the spaniards- helped the woman caught as she was stealing the market just due to the fact she had been married to a carlist pretender...

I´m really surprised about all this...

[Jose II]

We had a simillar problem ... but with a different epilogue :-)

Hilda Toledano, the self-appointed daughter of King D.Carlos, was not allowed to set foot in Portugal during the dictatorship, due to her very leftist political opinions.
After the revolution, she came and installed herself at the Sheraton Hotel, the most expensive hotel in Lisbon at the time.
Apparently one can be a very leftist person, without abandonning the taste for luxury, even if it represented by a hotel who, in 1974/75, was supposed to be the H-Q of the CIA in Portugal.

When she was checking-out, she was presented with the bill.

"Send it to the Foundation of the House of Bragança" she said. "I am the Duchess of Bragança, so they will naturally pay it".

Naturally, they did not !

[Robert_Hall]

What a character! Whatever happened to her?

[Marc]

It was Maria Berta de Rohan, who died penniless. I can't recall the story exactly but sure, it was her.

The story appears in an issue of HISTORIA Y VIDA dedicated to the successors of Carlos Maria Isidro, on a chapter dedicated to the Carlist queens. What appears is very brief: the Viennese police caught her stealing in a market; they thought she was loca when she identified herself as the widow of the King of Spain, but still called the Spanish embassy just in case; a diplomat posted her bail, and she was set free.
'tis little more than a paragraph, which is why I'm asking for further details, such as the name of the diplomat who behaved like a true hidalgo=gentleman.

Poor woman...so she didn't have any well-off relatived who would ''take care'' of her?

[Terence]

We had a simillar problem ... but with a different epilogue :-)

Hilda Toledano, the self-appointed daughter of King D.Carlos, was not allowed to set foot in Portugal during the dictatorship, due to her very leftist political opinions.
After the revolution, she came and installed herself at the Sheraton Hotel, the most expensive hotel in Lisbon at the time.
Apparently one can be a very leftist person, without abandonning the taste for luxury, even if it represented by a hotel who, in 1974/75, was supposed to be the H-Q of the CIA in Portugal.

When she was checking-out, she was presented with the bill.

"Send it to the Foundation of the House of Bragança" she said. "I am the Duchess of Bragança, so they will naturally pay it".

Naturally, they did not !

Jose, truer words were never said.  Hypocrisy abounds.  Something about the ending of the Wizard of Oz comes to mind, don't look behind the screen?

T

[Duke of New Jersey]

When Duke of Madrid died, she sold the "souvenirs" of the Carlism and those of Count of Chambord.

Did she sell many valuable/important/priceless things (like things from Marie Antoinette that were passed down the Bourbon-Parma line)? 

-Duke of NJ