Author Topic: Jeanne d'Arc  (Read 27746 times)

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elena_maria_vidal

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2005, 08:26:00 AM »
The original trial was considered illegal but like any other court proceeding it had to be overturned through certain channels, and this took awhile, for the wheels of canon law turn slowly. It does show that Charles VII's prestige had increased to the point where he was able to push things along, and it took 20 years to overturn the verdict rather than a hundred. It did take 500 years to canonize the poor girl.  The Swedish scholar Sven Stolpe's biography of the saint is IMO the very best one and goes into all this extensively.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by elena_maria_vidal »

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2005, 08:30:48 AM »
It was the least Charles could do, giving how little he did to save Jeanne . . .
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

elena_maria_vidal

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2005, 10:18:24 AM »
I agree, it was the least he could do. Jeanne was abandoned when she became an inconvenience and a thorn in his side.

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #63 on: November 12, 2005, 08:52:54 PM »
A little OT, but does anybody know of an online copy of the painting of Jeanne that hangs in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York?

Offline stacey

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2005, 08:36:36 AM »
Thanks for all the amazing pics and the discussion! Joan is one of my all-time heroes--she did indeed make fools out of the Churchmen who had so much more education and experience than she did! I believe that her act of leaping out of a window several stories high is true--as I recall when it was brought up during her trial (an accusation of attempted suicide, of course) Joan didn't deny that it happened but explained that she was trying to escape (I think that's correct--I'll have to look it up to be sure!) And something I think is very appropriate--supposedly right after witnessing Joan's heroic death at the stake, one of the English soldiers allegedly exclaimed, "May God forgive us! We have burned a saint!" How right he was!!
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palatine

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2005, 07:39:47 AM »
One of Joan's followers, Gilles de Rais, was a wealthy nobleman who was sent by Charles VII to support Joan in her campaign.  Gilles befriended Joan, fought by her side and was made a Marshal of France for his efforts.  Nine years after Joan was burned, Gilles was tried for heresy and executed.

Unlike Joan, Gilles was almost certainly guilty of heresy and the other charges brought against him; he practised black magic and tortured and murdered children.  

It is strange that Joan could have trusted a man like Gilles, though it seems that his murders did not start until after her execution.   It's a shame that Joan's life and death did not have a better influence on him.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palatine »

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #66 on: April 18, 2007, 01:15:30 PM »
I have always enjoyed this topic and I came across this article today;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6527105.stm
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Empress_Catherine

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2007, 09:28:11 PM »
I love this Saint so much!! She is my hero....so brave and strong!! I wish I had the courage like her.

Olishka~ Pincess

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2007, 10:33:28 PM »
I have always enjoyed this topic and I came across this article today;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6527105.stm

Interesting those bones could actually be Jeanne's remains but their cat remains instead the scientists thought that they could be her remains but they were dated way back before she was born they may have well been realy cat bones from Eygpt around the b.c times.

Richelieu00

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2007, 01:16:14 AM »
Melvyn Bragg, dedicated a show to The Siege of Orleans and Joan of Arc. It’s available for listening, on the BBC Radio Four website under the current series. I really enjoyed it and it helped me to understand a couple of things I was unsure about. He interviews three experts in the field on the show.

Mari

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2007, 07:18:04 AM »
I came across this paragraph in The Observer Dec. 17, 2006

According to historians, Joan of Arc was 19 when she was burnt at the stake in Rouen by the English on 30 May, 1431. She died of smoke inhalation. The Cardinal of Winchester is recorded as having ordered her to be burnt a second time. Her organs still survived this fire, so a third burning was ordered to destroy the body completely. Her cinders and debris were to be thrown into the Seine. does anyone know from other sources if this is accurate? ::)

FaithWhiteRose

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2007, 04:08:16 PM »
It should be mentioned that the Dauphin, later Charles VII, made absolutely no effort to save Jeanne.  >:(

That sucks!
Jeanne was definitely a great and admirable woman, even though i don't completey believe in her saying she heard voices, she was very courageous.

Here's a nice painting i found on that Howard David Johnson site:



I love history depicted in art
« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 04:10:18 PM by FaithWhiteRose »

Mari

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2007, 01:59:16 AM »
The part that is so fascinating about Joan to me is that She would even attempt to fight and lead an Army in an era that was Warrior dominated. Her Convictions had to be so strong.... enough to overcome all of the doubt that She faced and then pass all of the  tests. She identified Charles VII even though she had never seen him and they tried to trick her. Further, she gave him a message that most Historians believe was "that he was indeed the Son of the King."  Apparently others had doubted this and even Charles had.  Joan was intelligent if you read the transcripts they "try to trick her in every conceivable way." Even to the food She ate. I just remember her saying "when have I ever asked for more than bread and water."  Joan must have known that She could be killed in battle or that She might be caught before She even started on this...so I have to believe She really meant what She said. Many Mystics have had  experiences that are incredible to us...

FaithWhiteRose

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2007, 01:01:27 PM »
She was quite amazing and is utterly admirable.  :)

Mari

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Re: Jeanne d'Arc
« Reply #74 on: September 14, 2007, 06:37:44 AM »
I found this:
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On one of the nine surviving letters dictated by Joan, she had placed one strand of her own hair in the wax seal. This letter went to the citizens of Riom. Deplorably the hair has disappeared sometime during the second half of the nineteenth century. Perhaps it is now in some private collection but what ever happened to it, it is lost to the general public.

Items that were owned and used by a saint are considered second class relics. During the French Revolution, a time when Anti-God, Anti-Church and Anti-clerical forces ruled the country, several truly authentic relics of Joan were destroyed. Among them was the gray hat that Joan gave to Charlotte Boucher. This hat had been kept by her descendants for some two hundred years until the early 1600's when it was given to the Oratorian Order of Priests. It remained in the Order's Mother house in Orleans until the revolutionaries took the hat and threw it into a bonfire in 1792.

The descendants of Joan's brother, Pierre, had in their possession three of her letters and a sword that she had worn. The letters were saved but Joan's sword was lost during the chaos of the revolutionary period. Finally, during the height of the French Revolution Joan's standard was burnt. The staff person explained that it really was not the original standard that was burnt. She explained that during the three hundred plus years that the town held the standard, the standard's cloth was continually being repaired and pieces of it were replaced due to the damage done by moths. Even so, it just shows what hate had infected these people's hearts for them to want to destroy the relics of their own heroine.

The ring that was given to Joan by her mother and father was taken from her at the time of her capture. It was handed over to Bishop Pierre Cauchon who in turn gave it to Cardinal Beaufort, the Bishop of Winchester, England. The Beaufort family claimed that they had handed this very ring down within the family for generations. The ring in question is described as having the initials IHS and MAR with only one cross. However, its authenticity is highly doubted because it does not match Joan's description of her ring which she gave during her trial, ie., 'It had three crosses on it with the names of Jesus and Mary.' The ring is now in the hands of a private collector.

After World War II a helmet that might have belonged to Joan was obtained by the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art. The helmet hung over the high altar of the church of Saint Pierre du Martroi in the City of Orleans and it is believed that it was a votive offering given by Joan for the healing of the wound that she received at the Tourelles. The museum now displays this helmet as part of its armor collection. But again their is no way of definitely proving that the helmet in question was worn by Joan.

The staff person told me that the historians have no idea what happened to the sword of Saint Catherine. The Museum of Dijon have a sword which may have belonged to Joan but its authenticity is questionable. The blade seems to have been made in the 1490's but the hilt is small enough to fit a woman's hand. Therefore the hilt may be authentic but the blade definitely wasn't.

A third class relic is something touched by the saint. There are many such relics scattered throughout France. Included in this group are the nine letters that Joan dictated. They were addressed to the English at Orleans, the Duke of Burgundy, the Count d' Armagnac, the Hussites, to the citizens of Riom and Troyes and three to the citizens of Reims. Three of these letters bear her signature. Her first signature is found on the letter to the citizens of Riom. The other two letters that bear her signature are on the letters to the citizens of Reims.

The Church of Saint Remy in Domremy have three such relics, the holy water fountain, and the Baptismal fountain as well as the statue of Saint Margaret. In the Basilica of Saint Joan of Arc at the Bois Chenu, there is the Statue of Our Lady of Bermont before which Joan prayed every Saturday.
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« Last Edit: September 14, 2007, 06:43:04 AM by Mari »