Author Topic: Queen Consorts  (Read 46242 times)

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umigon

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2005, 11:54:10 AM »


Going back to the topic, this is the biography I rote somewhere on this forum a couple of months ago about Margaret Tudor. I hope it is good, and I think it was, as I still remember the nice words tsaria said to me after reading it! Thank you again for that! Here it goes:

Second of Henry VII and Elizabeth's eight children, Margaret was born the 28th November 1489 in Westminster Palace. She had an eldest brother, Arthur (1486-1502), and she would be followed by Henry (1491-1547), Elizabeth (1492-1495), Edward (circa 1494-circa 1494), Mary (1496-1533), Edmund (1499-1500) and Catherine (1503-1503). The latters birth provoked their mother's death, a fact which had a great impact in her children's mind.  

By then Margaret, who was 13, was already betrothed to King James IV of Scotland, who was 30. They were married in Holyrood Abbey the 8th August 1503. The couple started quite well and, while Margaret admired her husband's age and experience, he was quite impressed by her round but pretty face, her forms and her appetizing breasts, quite big for a young girl of her age.

Their first child was born in 1507 and it was a son. He was called James after his father but the baby wouldn't last much, dying in 1508. Both James and Margaret were devastated by their prince's death, but this event served to make even bigger the differences that were starting to arouse between the couple. In 1508 a stillborn daughter was born and the baby boy that was born in 1509, Arthur, died just a year later. By then the marriage had proven a complete failure and James and Margaret slept apart for a while. They only agreed in having more children but just for duty, not for pleasure. On the 15th April 1512 another son, James, was born, and his father was absolutely proud of him. Later that year Margaret miscarried another girl.  

In 1513 a war started between Scotland and England. James was annoyed with Henry VIII because he had seized two Scottish ships without reason and because he hadn't send a great part of Margaret's promised dowry. The Battle of Flodden was faught on September 9th, 1513. James IV was killed in the battle and his small son of 17 months, James V, became King. Margaret was now a young Regent of 24 and she was pregnant again.  

Even before James's death, Margaret had already began a relationship with the Earl of Angus, Archibald Douglas (1490-1557). Many people even thought that Prince Alexander, who was born in 1514, was Angus's child and not James's. Three months after Alexander's birth she married her lover, losing her right to be a Regent, as she was no longer the Queen Dowager, and also losing people's favour. John Stewart, Duke of Albany, who was James IV's cousin, seized the power from Margaret, who fled from Scotland with Prince Alexander and the Earl of Angus, looking for help in her brother's Court.  


Soon afterwards Margaret changed her allegiances with the English and quickly turned to Albany’s French-oriented tendencies. She wrote him secretly and Albany allowed her to return to Scotland as the Queen Mother, but not as the Queen Regent. He felt that it was wiser to appease the intriguing mother of  King James than making her angry in the Court of her belligerent brother, where she could plot whenever she wanted.  

umigon

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2005, 11:54:41 AM »
Margaret gave birth to a girl, Margaret Douglas, in 1515, and soon afterwards her son Alexander died. By then her marriage to Angus was a complete disaster and she soon started taking new lovers. In the meanwhile the child King, her son, was taken from one castle to another by the men who were supposed to protect him, but who just wanted to separate him from his duties, even though these were just a few, as James was still a small child. In 1526 James was imprisoned in Falkland Castle and Margaret tried to rescue him. She even sold some of her mother’s jewels that had surprisingly survived to her extravagant and expensive way of living. Increasingly nervous by the awful business she had done by marrying the ambitious but stupid and violent Angus, she soon forgot of her son’s problems and tried to divorce Angus in order to save her daughter’s fortune and social position.  

By then she was already engaged in a love relationship with Henry Stewart (1498-155 , from another branch of the Scottish Royal Family. In January 1528 she obtained the annulment of her second marriage and she married just two months later her beloved Stewart. Probably by the end of that year their only daughter, Dorothy, was born. Dorothy Stewart was the last of Margaret’s children to be born and she died young, apparently in 1547, when her mother was already dead.  

In that same year, 1528, James V managed to escape from Falkland and he started his proper reign at the age of 16. His first son, born to his mistress Elizabeth Shaw around 1529, was called James and would be Abbot of Kelso and Melrose. This made Margaret a young grandmother at the age of 39 or 40.  

Because of the bad relations between England and Scotland,  Margaret Tudor attempted to arrange a meeting between her son James and her brother, Henry VIII, in 1534, but James accused her of betraying secrets and no longer trusted her. In 1535 she asked her son a permission to annul her marriage to Stewart, who had been named Lord Methven, but James refused, astonished by his mother’s eccentric, scandalous and dissolute way of living. In the early 1536 she left Methven and ran away to Stirling with a young lover whose identity is unknown. In April of the same year her daughter Margaret’s behaviour led to another scandal: she married Thomas Howard, half-uncle to Queen Anne Boleyn, who had already fallen in disgrace. To make things even worse, she married without King Henry’s consent, so the couple was thrown in the Tower. Margaret Tudor wrote to her brother asking for her daughter’s freedom, but Henry didn’t even answer, as he thought his sister’s dissolute life had been an example for young Margaret Douglas and that she acted like she did because of what she had seen in her mother’s behaviour. Henry VIII finally freed his niece because she asked for his pardon, alleging that she had been deceived by Thomas, that she was willing for her marriage to be annulled and that she hadn’t consummated her union with Thomas, something which was probably a lie. The marriage was quickly annulled and Thomas would die beheaded in 1537.  

That same year, because of her son’s marriage to Princess Madeleine of France, Margaret was forced to live again with Methven in order to keep a sense of decorum in the King’s Court. After attending her son’s wedding she travelled with her husband to Methven, where the couple did find some type of peaceful married life after so many troubles in the past. Margaret was increasingly fat in those years, and she had began more and more susceptible of catching colds. It seems she may have suffered pains and ulcers similar to the ones her brother Henry suffered. Apparently she started drinking too much and her son didn’t even want to hear about her. She died in Methven Castle on November 24th, 1541. Four days later she would have been 52 years old.  

James V died a year later, soon after his daughter Mary had been born. His half-sister, Margaret Douglas married in 1544 the noble Matthew Stewart, Earl of Lennox, with whom she had two surviving sons. The eldest, Henry, would become his cousin Mary’s husband (the famous Lord Darnley).  


Offline ChristineM

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2005, 12:19:54 PM »
Umigon - I am every bit as impressed today as I was two months ago.   Congratulations.

tsaria

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2005, 12:27:52 PM »
Wonderful, umigon!  :D

Queen Margaret was every bit as interesting a character as her brother! On a side note, does a Queen Dowager always lose her title when she remarries?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

umigon

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2005, 12:33:55 PM »
Yes, she does, in Margaret's case:

she was no longer the widow of Mr. Stewart, but Mrs. Douglas, so she had no right to be a Regent. In Spain we had the same situation with Isabel II (r.1833-1868). Her mother married secretly Agustín Muñoz three motnhs after King Fernando VII's death, so she was no longer the Dowager Queen, but la Señora de Muñoz. She had no right, but as the marriage was kept secret for a while, she continued to be Regent. Margaret showed less intelligence and went around with Angus to everywhere!

Yes, Margaret was quite of a character, a passionate woman, like both Henry VIII and Mary Rose, who was also pasionate and rebellious when young.

Thanks to both of you for your nice comments!

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2005, 12:47:35 PM »
These Tudors, what a family! And when Tudors marry Stuarts, there's bound to be fireworks!  ;D
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2005, 01:40:58 PM »
Hello Blanche!

Here's Mary of Guelders:


I’ve been interested in Mary since I visited Falkland Palace in Fife. There’s a beautiful garden known as Queen Mary’s Walk, which was laid out by James II for his wife.

Mary was born I guess around 1432. Her father was the Duke of Gelderland (Guelders), which is now half in Germany half in the Netherlands. Her uncle was Philip the good, the Duke of Burgundy - and he was extremely rich!

Around 1448 /9 when James was looking for a wife the hundred years war was drawing to a close, and England was batting an extremely sticky wicket. Suddenly everyone wanted to be friends with the Scots! Philip the Good offered James the hand of his niece and a pretty substantial dowry. James sisters also made top-notch marriages by the way.

James and Mary married in 1449. The Duke of Burgundy sent 14 ships to accompany her to Scotland. The money came in handy making the Scottish palaces more comfortable, and I think James and Mary were happy. Three sons and two daughters were born, the eldest son being the future James III.

James spent his time dealing with the Douglas family (he had to have them all murdered twice!). In 1460 he decided the time was right to have a go at England, as that country was in the middle of the Wars of the Roses. He laid siege to the fortress of Roxburgh which was a massive English garrison in the middle of Scottish territory.

When Mary arrived to cheer the troops along, James arranged to have his new cannon fire a shot to welcome her. He was standing rather too near - the cannon backfired and the King was killed instantly. He was twenty-nine years old and left Mary as regent for their eight year old son.

Mary’s regency didn’t go badly. Most of the ruling was done by Bishop Kennedy, who’d helped out in the previous regency. Scotland won Berwick-on-Tweed back for a short time! Mary’s money helped to tide things over.

Mary didn’t waste time finding a man. Her lover was Adam Hepburn, the Master of Hailes. This started a tradition in the Hepburn family of consoling the widowed Queens of Scotland. I don’t know who they all were: one was linked to Mary of Guise apparently. Another was of course the Earl of Bothwell, the third husband of Mary Queen of Scots. I can’t imagine Margaret Tudor missing out on the fun so there was probably a Hepburn in there as well (does Umigon know?)

She didn’t have too long to live – she died in December 1463 at the age of about 30. Mary sounds like a good sort, all in all. I think it would have been better for her son if she’d been around a bit longer.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2005, 01:44:57 PM »
Thanks for that info!!  :D

The Hepburn linked to Marie de Guise . . . Patrick Hepburn, perhaps?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2005, 02:08:58 PM »
Patrick Hepburn - yes that's the one, "Bothwell" Bothwell´s father.

About Robert II and Elizabeth Mure. I read one reason that they didn't marry until ten years after they started having children was that they were waiting for the Pope to give them special permission to marriage because they were too closely related. Does anyone know exactly how they were related?

Were first cousins allowed to marry in those days?

I also read that Saint Margaret when she arrived in Scotland in 1068 was so appalled at the incestuous marriages in barbarous Scotland that she had the rules tightened up. No longer could you marry your stepmother nor would you be able to marry your (shock) deceased brother's widow.

The killjoy.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2005, 03:38:09 PM »
I'm pretty sure marriages between 1st cousins were legal but a dispensation was needed . . . did Mary get one when she married Darnley?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2005, 03:52:05 PM »
Yes they did get a dispensation but it wasn't issued until two months after the marriage. Mary was in a hurry.

Luckily the pope backdated it to before the wedding.

I still can't fathom why it took thirteen years for Robert II to get his!

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2005, 03:54:59 PM »
Perhaps the Pope wasn't feeling very sympathetic towards Robert . . .  ???
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

umigon

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2005, 03:56:39 PM »
Maybe there were other political or economic issues that had to be sorted out. Not all dispensations were quick, Ferdinand and Isabella married with a false dispensation and had to wait for a legal one then. And in Castile and Leon there were some cases of Royal marriages (even happy ones with children involved) that after ten years received a Papl order in which they were forced to separate from each other because of consanguinity... In those times it was far more complicated than after the 15th century!

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2005, 03:59:11 PM »
Richard III married his wife Anne Neville 2 months before a dispensation arrived . . .
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

umigon

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Re: Queen Consorts
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2005, 04:05:12 PM »
Yes, that is what I meant, there were delays both in dispensation and in anullments. There probably was a problem with the Pope of the time, could be a political problem or a religious one (or both, since in those times they were nearly or even totally the same thing!).

Do we know what was Robert's relationship with the King of England and the latter's with the Pope? I mean, it could have been something similar to the Henry VIII-Catherine of Aragon-Charles V issue but the other way round. Or from Anne Boleyn's point of view: a couple waiting for a papal document that permitted them to get married.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by umigon »