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Author Topic: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne  (Read 27004 times)

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umigon

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2005, 09:25:17 AM »


Well, I continue to disagree! hehehe ;) The last three quotations I wouldn't write but to someone I loved or to someone I would like to be with in a sexual context... Her youth is not an excuse, well, its making me things better. In the society of her time it was forbidden to have realtionships with men before marriage but, did they ever say anything about women? No! Lesbianism wasn't even considered possible by many in those times.

And about having happy marriages, it could be explained by many reasons. For example, Mary wasn't really a lesbian and just had been obsessed with Frances (again, in this obsession an affair is implied). It could also mean she was a bisexual, or even that she always fell in love in this type of obsessive way. She was also absolutely a servant for William and she badly treated her father and stepmother because her husband wanted so!
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umigon

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2005, 09:25:40 AM »
By the way where is that 'Non Hetero Royals' thread??
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2005, 09:45:16 AM »
The Non Hetero Royals thread is in the Imperial Family section - it's well worth a visit.

You are right that Mary had an obsessive nature, but I still have my doubts . . .

What are your thoughts on Sarah and Anne? They seem more likely to me to have had a relationship, especially given Sarah's comments about Anne and Abigail.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2005, 10:29:45 AM »
Sarah Churchill, Duchess of Marlborough:



Abigail Masham:




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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2005, 11:05:16 AM »
Hey Umigon, I am with you on this one. As we say in my part of the country.... These ladies were "ladies that wore comfortable shoes" ;)
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2005, 11:23:14 AM »
BTW, when I meant Mary was too young - I mean, she married when she was 15, and she first met Frances many years before. Is it really likely she was already sexually active? Varies from person to person, I guess . . .
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umigon

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2005, 11:27:31 AM »

15 years old? Why not?? ;)
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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2005, 11:35:42 AM »
No, I mean younger than 15 - by the time she married William she was no longer 'seeing' Frances, I think, at least not regularly.
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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umigon

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2005, 11:41:40 AM »
And how long had she been without seeing her? I suppose that between 11 and 14 one can be sexually active... if you have luck! hehe ;)
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2005, 11:56:47 AM »
Well, what are your thoughts on Anne/Sarah/Abigail? IMO, Anne is a more likely lesbian than Mary . . .
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

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umigon

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2005, 12:38:46 PM »
Oh, sorry, forgot about those three...


Well, yes, could also have been a lesbian, or at least a bisexual. But Sarah's comments... could be true, but she could be also saying that to hurt the Queen, as she had lost her favour, which was now on her cousin's hands and it was her who had presented both off them (correct me if I'm wrong, I often write from memory and I can be wrong!). So it could be what she really thought of Anne, a comment to hurt her because she felt spieful or both!

Still, making those comments was quite stupid of her. You can't pass all of your time with a person of your own sex for more than 20 years being very close in every act of his or her life both phisical and emotionally and then, when that person doesn't want you by his/her side any more go along saying this person is gay and pretend people not to believe you also are!

God, I don't know if you'll understand what I was trying to say above. I hope so!

Conclusion: Both Mary and Anne had lesbian affairs. That of Anne was probably more intense and real. Mary could have been exploring her newly discovered sexuality (you know, that emotions you feel when you are thirteen!) and she fell obsessively in love with Frances the same way straight girls nowadays kiss between each other just to explore their sexuality. Am I being clear? If you don't understand what I wrote, I'll try again!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2005, 02:31:41 PM »
No, no, that was quite clear. It seems possible, what you are saying . . . I am more coming round to the idea that Mary and Frances did have an affair, though how far it went I cannot answer for. It's the same with Anne/Sarah/Abigail - possible not a fully sexual affair, but very close . . .
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LenelorMiksi

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2005, 03:51:35 PM »
I believe Anne squinted because she was dreadfully near-sighted.  I don't know if they had spectacles back then or if she used them or how well they worked...

Why has Mary II been called 'The Faultless Queen'?  Was it just kissing up?
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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2005, 04:57:20 PM »
Her husband, William III, said he had never known her to have a single fault. Naturally, this did not stop him having an affair with Elizabeth Villiers (whether or not it was sexual is another matter) and possibly some men too.
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ilyala

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2005, 09:16:51 AM »
was everyone gay those days then? (about william having affairs with other men...)
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