Queens of France

[Prince_Lieven]

I agree Umigon. The same thing was said about Elizabeth I.

[trentk80]

I agree about Ingeborg's Hermaphroditism - wasn't the same thing said about the late Duchess of Windsor? The original Hermaphrodite was a child of Hermes and Aphrodite I believe (consanguinity alarm!).

Yes, in Greek mythology, Hermaphroditus was the son of the god Hermes and the goddess Aphrodite. Hence his name! He was an extremely handsome boy. One day, a beautiful nymph called Salmacis saw him while he was going to enter a pool in the forest and fell madly in love with him. She declared her passion, but he rejected her. When he thought she was gone, Hermaphroditus undressed and entered the waters of the empty pool. Salmacis sprang out from behind a tree and jumped into the pool, wrapping herself around the boy and forcibly kissing him while he struggled to be free. She clung to him with her whole body and prayed the gods that they should never be separated. The gods granted her prayer and their two bodies were joined together and they no longer were a boy or a girl but a mix of both. Hermaphroditus thereupon asked the gods that anybody who bathed in this pool should lose his virility, which was also granted.  

[Prince_Lieven]

Tsk, those Greeks - up to all sorts.  

[bluetoria]

St. Joan of Valois, daughter of Louis XI and wife of a Louis XII (I think it was Louis XII if my memory is correct!!)




This good woman was much abused because of her physical features = her 'hunchedback' and scarred face. She and her husband had been forced into marriage by her father, but her husband refused to go near her and, when he became king he had the marriage annulled so that he could marry someone else. The poor queen was much reviled by the Court but she maintained her dignity by responding:

“The reason why people despise me is not a valid one. For the value of a person comes not from the beauty of the body, but from the beauty of the soul. I have value as a princess, a daughter of a king, a wife of a king and a Catholic, and there is no ugliness that can annul these values. This is part of the moral order. Men can think whatever they want, judge whatever they desire, I will behave without arrogance but in full accordance with my dignity.”

She then, together with a saintly Franciscan, established an Order to pray for reconciliation between enemies and for peace in the world.

[Prince_Lieven]

Thanks for that! Jeanne seemed a truly noble and pious woman.  

[ilyala]

louis also annulled the marriage when he became king because there was a law that was forcing him to marry anne of brittany, charles viii's wife in order to keep france and britanny together.

[bluetoria]

Dose anyone know anything about Isabeau of Bavaria?

She was the wife of Charles VI, who faught against the English in Henry V's attempts to gain control of much of France.

Although her husband became increasingly insane, she bore him 12 children (though several of them died very young.) When Charles went completely mad, it was Isabeau, as regent who concluded peace with Henry V by cancelling her son's right to the French throne and allowing it to pass to Henry's son...Henry VI.

[Prince_Lieven]

Thanks Blue.  

BTW, Isabeau's daughter Isabelle married Richard II of England, and another daughter, Katherine, married Henry V.

[elena_maria_vidal]

A fascinating and informative discussion!! Thanks to you all!!

[Prince_Lieven]

No problem! Our pleasure!  

[Eric_Lowe]

Isabeau of Bavaria had a bad reputation. She was rumoured to be very beautiful and plenty of sex appeal. Her mother was a Visconti, so she was half Italian.

Isabeau was the enemy of her kinswoman, Violante Visconti, Duchess of Orleans. She had an affair with the handsome Duke, and King Charles was long rumoured to be the son of this union. She publicly admit that he was a bastard and supported her daughter Katherine of Valois's husband Henry V of England as King of France.

Another of her daughters, Michelle married Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy who ordered Jeanne of Purcelle to be burned at the stake.

[Kimberly]

Crazy though it sounds, I have come across a hypothesis that says Isabeau was the mother of Jeanne D'Arc
Whilst she was an acknowledged beauty, in later life she became grossly fat and had to be carried around in a specially adapted chair.

[Eric_Lowe]

Yes...I read about that. There is also the hypothesis that the real Jeanne was saved at the last moment and a subsistude was burned.

Isabeau did became fat, too much good food I guess...However I heard her daughter Katherine of Valois did kept her figure till the end.

[Alexios]

This reminds me of a story about Henry IV of England. He was told he would die in Jerusalem, which he assumed meant on Crusade. In the end, he died in a room called the Jerusalem Chamber!

Right, in Westminster Abbey by the way.

The Queens before the rule of Hugues Capet...
Let's start with the first Carolingian queen.
- Bertrada of Laon, also called Bertha of the Big Foot, (ca. 725-783), wife of Pippin the Short (714-768, king of the Franks 751-768).
children:
1. Charlemagne (probably 747-814)
2. Carloman (751-771)
3. Bertha
4. Gisela (757-810)

- Himiltrude (ca. 740/45-ca. 780), first wife ("Friedelfrau") of Charlemagne  (742/47-814, king of the Franks 768/71-814, Emperor 800-814), marriage 768).
I read in German that this was a so-called "Friedelehe".
children:
1. Pippin the Hunchback (before 770-811)

"Die Friedelehe ist eine Eheform des Frühmittelalters.

"Friedel" leitet sich vom mittelalterlichen "friudiea" ab, was soviel wie Geliebte heißt; "Ehe" stammt vom mittelalterlichen Wort "etwa" mit der Bedeutung "Recht, Gesetz".

Charakteristika der Friedelehe sind:

    * Der Ehemann wird nicht Vormund der Frau
    * Die Ehe beruhte auf einer Willensübereinkunft zwischen Mann und Frau; beide hatten also den Wunsch zu heiraten
    * Die Frau hatte wie der Mann ein Recht darauf die Scheidung zu verlangen
    * Die Friedelehe wurde in der Regel zwischen Paaren aus unterschiedlichen Ständen geschlossen
    * Friedelehen ermöglichten Polygynie
    * Die Kinder aus einer Friedelehe unterstanden nicht der Verfügungsgewalt des Vaters, sondern lediglich der der Mutter
    * Kinder aus einer Friedelehe waren zunächst voll erbberechtigt; durch den zunehmenden Einfluss der Kirche wurde ihre Position aber immer mehr abgeschwächt
    * Eine Friedelehe kam allein durch öffentliche Heimführung der Braut und die Hochzeitsnacht zu stande; zudem erhielt die Braut eine Morgengabe
    * Eine Friedelehe konnte zu einer Muntehe umgewandelt werden, wenn der Ehemann nachträglich den Brautschatz leistete

Die Friedelehe wurde durch die Kirche im 9. Jahrhundert als illegitim erklärt. (=this type of marriage was declared illegitimate by the church in the 9th century). Trotzdem haben sich Reste dieser Eheform bis in die Neuzeit hinein in der Form der morganatischen Ehe (auch Ehe zur linken Hand genannt) erhalten.

Neben der Friedelehe existierte im Mittelalter des weiteren die bereits erwähnte Muntehe, die Kebsehe und die Raub- oder Entführungsehe.

Nach neueren Forschungen könnte es sich bei der Friedelehe jedoch um ein bloßes Forschungskonstrukt handeln.

I didn't find that in English.

- Gerberga (ca. 750-after 771), wife of Carloman (751-771, king of the Franks 768-771, brother and co-ruler of Charlemagne).
children:
1. Pippin (770-?)

- Ermengarda/Desiderata (ca. 750-after 770), second wife of Charlemagne, daughter of the King of the Langobards, Desiderius, marriage 769, he outcasted her in 770 or in early 771, terminating the alliance with the Langobards, no issue.

- Hildegard of Savoy (758-783), third wife of Charlemagne, marriage ca. 771.
children:  
1. Charles the Younger (772/73-811)
2. Adelheid (September 773/Juni 774- Juli/August 774)
3. Rotrud (775-6.6.810)
4. Pippin (Karlmann) (777-810)
5. Louis I the Pious (778-840), king of the Franks, emperor  .
6. Lothar (778-779/80)
7. Bertha (779-after January 14, 823)
8. Gisela (before May 781- after 814)
9. Hildegard (782-783)

- Fastrada (ca. 765-794), fourth wife of Charlemagne, marriage 783.
children:
1. Theodrada Abess of Argenteuil (785-844/853)
2. Hiltrud (787- after 814)

- Liutgard (ca. 775-800), fifth wife of Charlemagne, marriage 794, no issue.

- Irmingard (ca. 775/80-818), daughter of count Ingran (Frank), wife of Louis I the Pious (778-840, crowned co-emperor 813, succeded Charlemagne in 814, crowned emperor by Pope Stephen V in 816), marriage 794.
1. Lothar I (795-855)
2. Pippin (ca. 797-838)
3. Louis II the German (ca. 806-876)
4. Rotrud (800-), countess of Limoges or Auvergne
5. Hildegard, abbess of Notre-Dame in Laon (802/04-860)

- Judith (ca. 795-843), wife of Louis I the Pious, daughter of count Welf, marriage 819.
children:
1. Gisela (819-874)
2. Charles II the Bald (823-877)

- Irmintrud (830-869), first wife of Charles II the Bald (823-877, king of the West Franks 843-877, king of Italy 875-877, crowned emperor by pope John VIII in 875), daughter of Odo of Orléans, marriage 842.
children:
1. Judith (844-870), queen of Wessex, countess of Flanders.
2. Louis II the Stammerer (846-879)
3. Charles, king of Aquitain (847/48-866)
4. Carloman, abbot of St. Germain d'Auxerre (-876)
5. Lothar, abbot St. Germain d' Auxerre (ca. 850-865)
6. Ermentrud, abbes of Hasnon

- Richilde (ca. 850-910/29), second wife of Charles II the Bald, marriage 869.
children:
1. Rothild (871-928/29), countess of Maine.
2. Drogo (872/73- 873/74)
3. Pippin (872/73-873/74)
4. son (875-?)
5. Charles (876-877)

- Ansgard (-after 879), first wife of Louis II the Stammerer (846-879, king of the West Franks 877-879), daughter of count Harduin, marriage 862.
children:
1. Louis III (ca. 863/65-882)
2. Carloman (866-884)
3. Gisela, countess of Troyes (-884)
4. Hildegard
She never was queen, but mother of two kings.

- Adelheid (ca. 855/60-901), second wife of Louis II the Stammerer, daughter of count Adalhard of Paris, marriage ca. 875.
children:
1. Charles III the Simple (879-929)
2. Ermentrud

- Louis III (king of the West Franks 879-882) never married.

- Carloman (co-ruler 879-882, king of the West Franks 882-884), as I understood, was only engaged to Engelberga (877-after January 917), daughter of Duke Boso of Provence.

- Charles III the Fat (839-888) becam ruler of the West Frankish kingdom for a short time (885-887), but usually is not counted as king, his wife was Richardis (-906/09, marriage in 862), daughter of count Erchanger.

- Theodrada of Troyes (-after 890), wife of Eudes of Paris (ca. 860/65-898, king of the West Franks 888-898), daughter of count Aledram, marriage 888, no known issue.

- Frederuna of Hamaland (ca. 887-917), first wife of Charles III the Simple (879-929, king of the West Franks 893/98-922), daughter of count Dietrich, marriage 907.
children:
1. Irmintrud (908/09-), countess palatine of Lorraine
2. Frederuna
3. Adelheid
4. Gisela (-919), duchess of Normandy
5. Rotrud
6. Hildegard

- Eadgifu (905-956), second wife of Charles III, daughter of King Edward I of Wessex, marriage 919.
children:
1. Louis IV Transmarinus (920/21-954)

- Aelia, first wife of Robert I (866-923, king of the West Franks 922-923 against Charles III), never queen, but mother of a future queen.
children:
1. Adele-Liegarde, countess of Vermandois.
2. Emma (890/95-934), queen of the West Franks.

- Beatrix (880- after March 26, 931) of Vermandois-Meaux, second wife of Robert I, daughter of count Heribert I, marriage 893.
1. Hugues the Great (895-956)

- Emma (890/95-934), wife of Raoul of Burgundy (before 890-936, king of the West Franks 923-936 against Charles III (until 929)), daughter of Robert I, king of the West Franks, marriage 910/914, no issue.

- Gerberga of Saxony (913-969), wife of Louis IV Transmarinus (920/21-954, king of the West Franks 936-954), daughter of Henry I, German king, marriage 939.
children:
1. Lothar (941-986)
2. Gerberga (940/42-?), countess of Vermandois
3. Charles (945-953)
3. Maud (943-after November 26, 981), queen of Burgundy
4. Louis (948-954)
5. Charles, Duke of Lower Lorraine (953-after 991)
6. Henry (953-953)

- Emma of Italy (948-988), wife of Lothar (941-986, king of the West Franks 954-986), daughter of king Lothar, marriage 966.
children:
1. Louis V (966/67-987)
2. Otto, capitular (ca. 970-November 11, before 986)

- Adelaide of Anjou (ca. 945-ca. 1026), wife of Louis V Do-Nothing (966/67-987, king of the West Franks 986-987), marriage 982, married 984/86 William II count of Arles, actually wasn't queen, but perhaps you could argue that she was still legally married to Louis when he became king. As you can see (--->dates) It was a very strange marriage, because she was probably the same age or even a little older then Louis' mother.

[bell_the_cat]

Eadgifu is one of the few English princesses to become Queen of France.

The only other one I can think of is Mary Tudor.