Author Topic: OTMA - smoking, make up and clothes  (Read 124181 times)

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Imperial_Grounds

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #165 on: July 25, 2008, 10:18:43 AM »
I'll have to check on them, aldo you could guess the communists didn't care about the past, and i am not surprised to learn they used useful stuf during the war.But then again, there wasn't much more of a choice i guess.

Offline Michael HR

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #166 on: July 25, 2008, 10:33:54 AM »
I am not sure I agree fully with this. They perserved much more than was lost. Pavlosk has been restored after the Nazi's destroyed it, Catherine Palace has been restored, the Winter Palace is more or less intact etc. So much could have been wiped out that was kept thank God. I agree some has gone but much remains and for that at least we have to thank them I suppose.

Michael

I'll have to check on them, also you could guess the communists didn't care about the past, and i am not surprised to learn they used useful stuff during the war.But then again, there wasn't much more of a choice i guess.
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Imperial_Grounds

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #167 on: July 25, 2008, 10:48:52 AM »
I am not sure I agree fully with this. They perserved much more than was lost. Pavlosk has been restored after the Nazi's destroyed it, Catherine Palace has been restored, the Winter Palace is more or less intact etc. So much could have been wiped out that was kept thank God. I agree some has gone but much remains and for that at least we have to thank them I suppose.

Michael


I agree on that, they had the chance to destroy allot but didn't. But still, I can't help that i feel about it that way, its just that they wanted to erase the Imperial past, or give the world a wrong view on it and only for that I dislike them.(to be honest i hate the communist regime)

And then i forgot that they broke down the Ipatiev House because it became a place of pelgrimage, and had been visited by Monarchists who wanted to pay their respects. And the government didn't want it, because it showed people cared for the fate of the Imperial Family.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 11:06:02 AM by Imperial_Grounds »

Robert_Hall

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #168 on: July 25, 2008, 11:12:34 AM »
Michael HR is quite right. The Communists  saved and restored far more than was lost. The Imperial past was not erased, it was re-translated.  One of Lenin's first acts was to forbid the looting of the palaces [other than the wine cellars and that was to prevent mass drunkedness]
 As for the clothes,  much is displayed  at the Hermitage, Kremlin and the AP itself Gowns and uniforms mainly, often on a rotating basis, as it is in most museums. I saw the 1903 Ball  costumes  at the Kremlin. Spectacular!
  Old/antique fabrics are very difficult and costly to display & maintain.  This is why so few are out at any one time.
 Also, if one is freezing and wearing rags for shoes, finds  closets full of  furs, coats and boots- well, why not?

tom_romanov

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #169 on: July 25, 2008, 11:23:03 AM »
I saw the 1903 Ball  costumes  at the Kremlin. Spectacular!

oh your so lucky to see them! :)

G_Lermontov

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #170 on: July 30, 2008, 02:12:02 AM »
Quote
Everything that went to captivity is gone.  Either burned at the Ipatiev House, Sokolov found the remains and ashes, or what little was left was sent to the Romanov Family in exile in the big trunks.

Who sent the remaining clothing from the Ipatiev House to the surviving Romanovs?  The Whites after they captured Ekaterinburg?  I assume it wouldn't have been the Bolsheviks, but I've learned not to try to apply logic to anything communists do.   ;)

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #171 on: July 30, 2008, 09:23:21 AM »
It was actually the Bolsheviks who sent the trunks to the Family.  It was sort of a publicity stunt, to say "yeah we sent everything that was left".  The truth was that the trunks held nothing of value at all. Frayed table napkins and tablecloths, towels, clothing, broken bits of china.

I spoke with Bob again about the clothes.  They didn't save "everything", just the expensive and fancy couture, and Nicholas' and Alexei's clothes. The girls' "everyday" clothes were sold at used clothing shops in Petrograd.  Don't forget, they were hopelessly out of date and fashion by the 1920s, and the Civil War had made clothing quite scarce. So, shoes, skirts, underwear, socks, etc. were needed by "the people" and were not seen as necessary for the "museum" mission of the AP.

Imperial_Grounds

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #172 on: July 30, 2008, 09:31:37 AM »
It was actually the Bolsheviks who sent the trunks to the Family.  It was sort of a publicity stunt, to say "yeah we sent everything that was left".  The truth was that the trunks held nothing of value at all. Frayed table napkins and tablecloths, towels, clothing, broken bits of china.

That is cruel, I might overreacting but it just is. That's like saying 'now you've got your proof, they're gone forever.' and once again it shows how much the Communists hated the Romanov's, even in exile they couldn't stop harassing them... >:(

I wonder what it must have done to The Dowager Empress Maria and Nicky's sisters. Does anyone know if they actually saw what was in the trunks by any chance?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 09:41:18 AM by Imperial_Grounds »

tom_romanov

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #173 on: July 30, 2008, 09:37:23 AM »
It was actually the Bolsheviks who sent the trunks to the Family.  It was sort of a publicity stunt, to say "yeah we sent everything that was left".  The truth was that the trunks held nothing of value at all. Frayed table napkins and tablecloths, towels, clothing, broken bits of china.

That is cruel, I might overreacting but it just is. That's like saying 'now you've got your proof, they're gone forever.' and once again it shows how MUCH the Communists hated the Romanov's, even in exile they couldn't stop harassing them... >:(

I wonder what it must have done to The Dowager Empress Maria and Nicky's sisters. Does anyone know if they actually saw what was in the trunks by any chance?


if i remember correctly then some trunks were sent to buckingham palace where they were opened by one of nicholas sisters (?) in front of the king and queen at first they found only clothes but later on when they looked again thet found jewels sewn into their clothes.

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #174 on: July 30, 2008, 10:00:55 AM »
No, this is not true.  Its a rumor that has been going around for years. First of all, the Bolsheviks KNEW that they had sewed jewels into their clothing, so they certainly would have searched every last scrap before sending the trunks.  The sorry state of the clothes etc that did arrive attests to that, they even had cut into the lining of the trunks to make certain they hadn't hidden anything there.  I saw these cuts myself.

Second "if" Olga or Xenia "had" discovered "secret jewels" why in the world would they have TOLD anyone? Makes no sense, does it?


tom_romanov

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #175 on: July 30, 2008, 10:06:32 AM »
No, this is not true.  Its a rumor that has been going around for years. First of all, the Bolsheviks KNEW that they had sewed jewels into their clothing, so they certainly would have searched every last scrap before sending the trunks.  The sorry state of the clothes etc that did arrive attests to that, they even had cut into the lining of the trunks to make certain they hadn't hidden anything there.  I saw these cuts myself.

Second "if" Olga or Xenia "had" discovered "secret jewels" why in the world would they have TOLD anyone? Makes no sense, does it?

i didnt know it was a rumor, thanks for informing me. your're very lucky to see the trunks!

Imperial_Grounds

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #176 on: July 30, 2008, 10:10:54 AM »
No, this is not true.  Its a rumor that has been going around for years. First of all, the Bolsheviks KNEW that they had sewed jewels into their clothing, so they certainly would have searched every last scrap before sending the trunks.  The sorry state of the clothes etc that did arrive attests to that, they even had cut into the lining of the trunks to make certain they hadn't hidden anything there.  I saw these cuts myself.

Second "if" Olga or Xenia "had" discovered "secret jewels" why in the world would they have TOLD anyone? Makes no sense, does it?

I agree with you, and those Bolsheviks...

I just hate them, Lenin wanted a revolution for the good of the Russian people, but it didn't turned out so good....

And indeed they knew, Yurovsky found jewels in the clothting the IF and servants were wearing that night so it seems reasonable that they searched all personal belongings of the IF where the jewels might have been hidden.


Alexander1917

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #177 on: July 31, 2008, 08:01:29 AM »
Some of the dresses went also in exhibitions....for example there were some dresses of Minnie and Alix in Munic (FabergĂ© and Cartier) 2004  and also (despite the fact of communism) there were a exhib. at Schloss Pillnitz (near Dresden) former GDR in the 1980's, calling "Dresses from the IMperial Court" , some uniforms, livree, and dresses of Alix....I got a catalouge in German and Russian of this.....

Offline Michael HR

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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #178 on: July 31, 2008, 09:26:10 AM »
We must I suppose be grateful so much has survived to this day when it could all have been lost. It is a shame that the members of the family burnt what was sent from Ekaterinburg but I understand why they did this.
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Re: what happened to OTMA's clothes?
« Reply #179 on: July 31, 2008, 09:39:31 AM »
We also have to remember that the clothes that were sent back were nothing fancy or special.  There were "everyday" clothes albeit of the finest manufacture, and they were years out of date and out of fashion, a bit frayed and worn, and of no use to anyone except to be either painfully sad memories of murdered family members or worshiped as relics, neither of which the Romanov family found to be what they or their departed family members would have wanted.