Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna, Duchess of Edinburgh and Coburg

[lori_c]

It would seem that MA and her family were also naive if they expected her to be top of the pecking order once she joined the British Royal Family! 

Another quote from "Marie of Romania":
  Both father and daughter, howeveer  held out for Marie's position ahead of the Queen's daughters."

And I believe that precedence over the Queen's daughters did not occur until after Marie became Duchess of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha.

You are correct.  When Marie became Duchess she superceded the Princess of Wales and the rest of the girls. Even though she retained the title of Her Imperial Highness at her father's insistence as the wife of Prince Alfred.   before she became Duchess of Coburg.

[emeraldeyes1969]

Here is the Tennyson piece. 

A Welcome to Her Royal Highness Marie Alexandrovna, Duchess of Edinburgh

The son of him with whom we strove for power-
Whose will is lord thro' all his world-domain-
Who made the serf a man, and burst his chain-
Has given our prince his own imperial Flower,
Alexandrovna.
And welcome, Russian flower, a people's pride,
To Britain, when her flowers begin to blow!
From love to love, from home to home you go,
From mother unto mother, stately bride,
Marie Alexandrovna!

The golden news along the steppes is blown,
and at thy name the Tartar tents are stirr'd;
Elburz and all the Caucasus have heard;
And all the sultry palms of India known,
Alexandrovna.
The voices of our universal sea,
On capes of Afri as on cliffs of Kent,
The Maoris and that Isle of Continent,
And loyal pines of Canada murmur thee,
Marie Alexandrovna!

Fair empires branching, both, in lusty life!-
Yet Harold's England fell to Norman swords;
Yet thing own land has bow'd to Tartar hordes
Since English Harold gave its throne a wife,
Alexandrovna!
For thrones and peoples are as waifs that swing,
and float or fall, in endless ebb and flow;
But who love best have best the grace to know
That Love by right divine is deathless king,
Marie Alexandrovna!

And Love has led thee to the stranger land,
Where men are bold and strongly say their say; -
See, empire upon empire smiles today,
As thou with thy young lover hand in hand
Alexandrvona
So now thy fuller life is in the west,
Whose hand at home was gracious to thy poor:
Thy name was blest within the narrow door;
Here also, Marie, shall thy name be blest,
Marie Alexandrovna!

Shall fears and jealous hatreds flame again?
Or at thy coming, Princess, everywhere,
The blue heavan break, and some diviner air
Breathe thro' the world and change the hearts of men,
Alexandrovna?
But hearts that change not, love that cannot cease,
And peace be yours, the peace of soul in soul!
And howsoever this wild world may roll,
Between your peoples truth and manful peace,
Alfred - Alexandrovna


It's so...well...effusive.  All I could think of when I saw the title is that Marie must have cringed at being termed a mere Royal Highness. 

[TampaBay]

I find Marie very interesting.  Jenny Churchill wrote very flattering things about her.  Towards the end of her life (the last 20 years) she became very close to both Alix & Minny.  She was close to Leopold all her married life.  EVII had nothing bad to say about her and George V though her and (Olga) as second mothers.

Grandduchess Ella needs to write her book on Marie as there is so much we do not know.  I hope her letters are published soon.

TampaBay

[grandduchessella]

Thanks as always for your faith in my writing ability, TB. 

I'd be happy for the project that John Wimbles was working on to finally come to fruition in some form or the other. The articles he's written on Marie and her daughters (many using letters from Marie) are fascinating and enlightening. I really hope that someday he gets a book on Marie done.

The was an old magazine (Munsey's?) that published some letters that Marie wrote to Jenny Churchill--it might have been part of a series on reminiscences by Jenny, I can't really remember. The tone was so different from what one might have expected of Marie based on her familiar image--they were warm and funny.

There were also some excerpts I read where Marie was writing about the von Angeli (?) portrait that was done of the family where she was very disparaging about her looks, referring to her 'pig-face' and wondering why she should be painting--she seemed almost embarrassed at the idea of being immortalized in a portrait. That, to me, showed a more vulnerable side than one usually associates with Marie.

[Romanov_fan]

I think Marie was a nice person, she tried to be a good mother, and a good royal. She was down to earth in personality, one thinks, but could be haughty in manner. She was a Romanov though, and England was not a country where she fit in, especially when Queen Victoria was the dominant figure. They were never going to get along, something Queen Victoria most likely knew better than her. But, she was hard to get along with when she was out of her element, MA. Had Queen Victoria tried very hard to get along with her, maybe she might have?

[Ena]

I thought that MA and QV got along towards the end of QV's life.  I always thought they were the same in personalities which is why they bumped heads so much.  Plus, I think that QV was a bit taken aback that MA stood up for herself in front of her MIL.  Something that QV came to respect.

[Grace]

But, she was hard to get along with when she was out of her element, MA. Had Queen Victoria tried very hard to get along with her, maybe she might have?

I doubt if Queen Victoria felt she had to try "very hard" to get along with one of her daughters-in-law.  I think she would have felt it should have been the other way around. 

[grandduchessella]

I agree--it wasn't in Queen Victoria's nature as a woman or a monarch to try and bend to suit others. She also wasn't impressed by the Romanovs at all--she had refused to travel to Germany (?) to meet Empress Marie A. when the marriage negotiations were going on saying that as a reigning monarch--and one who had reigned longer than Alexander II, they could come to her. Of course, this probably wasn't the best beginning to the MIL/DIL relationship. 

The relationship did seem to improve in later years. QV appreciated that Alfred hadn't been an easy husband, to say the least, and I think she respected Marie's strength of character more as the years went on. Alfred becoming Duke of Coburg and giving Marie a real sense of purpose probably helped sooth things over--plus it took them out of the Queen's orbit and control. They spent more time together in the last years of the Queen's life and Marie made sure to stop and get Elizabeth of Hesse on her way to England so that the Queen could see her one last time. That shows a real consideration that might not have been there years prior.

[Katherine_The_O.K.]

It's too bad that Marie A didn't marry a soon-to-be-soveirgn or king, she sounds like she would have made an excellent queen, especially in terms of will power!

And I don't think MA was necessarily haughty so much as insecure. The fact that she dislikes her 'pig-face' (I can commiserate) and mentions it at least indicates that she wasn't vain. I imagine when you're physically insecure and surrounded by beautiful women (Alix, Louise, etc) you feel a need to claim some kind of superiority, if only so you can feel as though you're on equal footing. I'm sure MA was terrified when she moved to England and she reacted poorly by pulling rank, perhaps in some attempt to seem worthy when compared to the other women in her new family. She may not be a beauty, but she is a Tsar's daughter. Such thinking goes a long way to bolster self-esteem, and it must have made it somewhat easier for her to adjust. Although Victoria certainly disliked it!

[Romanov_fan]

Well, it was entirely understandable that she did dislike it.  I wonder how much of what MA was said to be, or was not went back to her childhood, because at one time she wasn't the Czar's only daughter. She did have a sister, who, I believe died at the age of seven named Alexandra. I can't remember if she was older or younger than her, although I think it was older. She might have, in the aftermath or, or knowing her sister's death, been even more moved to assert herself as the Czar's daughter, ( and this lay in her personality as well),  because maybe she was a bit jealous of her sister ( if she was insecure)? Alexandra was by all acounts the beloved daughter of Czar Alexander II. Then again, wasn't it a bit unusual to be the only daughter of a Czar? For someone like MA, it was easy to make the most of that fact. The last thing she needed was an English marriage, though.

[grandduchessella]

She was older--the first born child actually. Alexandra was born in 1842 and died in 1849. Marie was born in 1853.

[Ena]

Marie was the long awaited for girl after Alexandra's death.  After all those boys, AII and his wife cherished another girl.  I'm at work, but there is a quote in Camera and the Tsars about their feelings when Marie was born.

[Romanov_fan]

Perhaps because she was so important to them, she had a higher opinion of herself than otherwise, in addition to being a Romanov? I think that's what I was trying to say above. But, surely she knew how important her sister had once been to them. That might have been a memory for her, albeit not one of her own, but one she knew about through the family.

[Ena]

Got it.  From The Camera and the Tsars. 

Alexander II-
"We lost our eldest girl and we had so ardently wished for another - her birth was a joy and a delight...When she was in the school room, our hours did not suit and I could very seldom have her to walk with me, but then on Sundays she was mine and we always walked together...yesterday when the hour came round, I could not help telegraphing to her how I was thinking of her and our walks."

[ilyala]

i think there must have been some contrast between the parents' attitude and marie's own opinions. i mean, she must have noticed the many beautiful women around the russian court and must have had some feeling of inferiority. especially since she wasn't very courted (does anyone know of any other serious contender for her hand except affie?). and then she went to the english court where the ever elegant alexandra was... that must have been quite frustrating. especially since this time there were no parents to spoil her, just queen victoria trying to bring her to submission. yes, there must have been some insecurity there.