The Imperial Family and servants - everyday life

[clockworkgirl21]

I know my information is coming from wikipedia, so I'm not saying it's fact. But I came across this:

As an adolescent, Olga received frequent reminders from her mother to be an example for the other children and to be patient with her younger sisters and with her nurses. On January 11, 1909, Alexandra admonished thirteen-year old Olga for rudeness and bad behavior. She told the teenager that she must be polite to the servants, who looked after her well and did their best for her, and she should not make her nurse "nervous" when she was tired and not feeling well.[16] Olga responded on January 12, 1909 that she would try to do better but it wasn't easy because her nurse became angry and cross with her for no good reason.[17] However, Ersberg, one of the maids, told her niece that the servants sometimes had good reason to be cross with Olga because the eldest grand duchess could be spoiled, capricious, and lazy.[18]

Since it has dates, the information may have come from letters. Does anyone have any like this?

[LisaDavidson]

Discussion about actual incidents of alleged rudeness to servants will be allowed. Further speculation about alleged rudeness will be deleted.

[Sarushka]

I know my information is coming from wikipedia, so I'm not saying it's fact. But I came across this:

As an adolescent, Olga received frequent reminders from her mother to be an example for the other children and to be patient with her younger sisters and with her nurses. On January 11, 1909, Alexandra admonished thirteen-year old Olga for rudeness and bad behavior. She told the teenager that she must be polite to the servants, who looked after her well and did their best for her, and she should not make her nurse "nervous" when she was tired and not feeling well.[16] Olga responded on January 12, 1909 that she would try to do better but it wasn't easy because her nurse became angry and cross with her for no good reason.[17] However, Ersberg, one of the maids, told her niece that the servants sometimes had good reason to be cross with Olga because the eldest grand duchess could be spoiled, capricious, and lazy.[18]

Since it has dates, the information may have come from letters. Does anyone have any like this?

Here is a link to the article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchess_Olga_Nikolaevna_of_Russia_%281895%E2%80%931918%29


The numbers in brackets indicate the original sources, which are A Lifelong Passion and The Last Tsar.

Here is Alexandra's letter from 11 January 1909:
Olga dear,
 You want me to write a lettter. Girlie mine, you must remember that one of the first things is to be polite and not rude, neither in manners nor in words. Rude words in the mouth of little children is more than not nice. Be always thoughtful and frank. Listen to those who are older than you. Remember above all to always be a good example to the little ones, one then our Friend will be contented with you.
 They are small and don't understand things so well, and will always imitate the big ones. Therefore you must think of every word you say and what you do.
 Be particularly polite to all the servants and nurses. They look after you so well. Think of Mary, how she has nursed you all, how she does her very best for you, and when tired and feels not well you must not add by making her nervous. Listen to her, be obedient and always kind. I have made her your nurse and you must always be good with her and also S.I. [Tiutcheva]. You are big enough to understand what I mean.
 Be good and listen to your mother. Read this to Tatiana. Always beg pardon when you have been rude or disobedeint. Now try your best, and I shall be happy.
A loving kiss from your old Mama. +


Olga's reply, on 12 January 1909:
My sweety darling Mama,
 I am going to write you a letter because you wrote one and such a kind one to me. Shall try to do all you wrote to me. It is sometimes not a bit easy with Mary, because she is with out any reason angry and gets cross for nothing.
 Mama dear it helps me very much when you write to me what to do, and then I try to do it is better as I can.
 A loving kiss from your ever true and very loving daughter
Olga
God bless you and your whole life.

[Sarushka]

Oof -- I hit "post" before I intended to....

Here is the relevant quote from Radzinsky. The speaker is Maria Nikolaevna Ersberg, niece of the parlormaid Elizaveta Nikolaevna Ersburg who served the IF and accompanied them into exile:
"According to Aunt Elizaveta's stories, the children were modest and diligent. Olga, the eldest, was a little spoiled and capricious and could be lazy, but Tatiana and Anastasia were always busy -- all of them sewed and embroidered, and they even cleaned their own room. Their father paid the children more attention than their mother did. Alexandra Feodorovna often lay in bed with a migraine, or quarreled with the parlormaids..."

[anna11]

Ok, to be fair I don't think Radinsky is much of a reliable source about the private life of the IF. I'm sure OTMA were rude to servants once in a while, not because they were servants but because everyone is rude sometimes. 

A mother telling her daughter to be polite and kind is something every single mother ever has done, and that letter to Olga, and the once from Olga to her mother does not seem like there is any kind of serious problem between Olga and the servants. I know from experience that being the oldest in a large family one is often told to 'be good and polite and an example to the younger children, cause they look up to you, be a good role model blah blah blah '

[Sarushka]

IMO, this does not indicate a pattern or habit of rudeness toward the servants on Olga's part. It does suggest to me that she and one particular servant, the nurse named Mary, did not always get along. A number of memoirs make note of the fact that Olga could be hot-tempered, so perhaps her tongue ran away with her from time to time when she was frustrated with Mary.


I am a bit more cautious about Ersberg's comments regarding Alexandra. They were written by Ersberg's niece in a letter to Radzinsky. I know little about the Ersbergs, so I don't know if their recollections are reliable. At any rate, the stories are second-hand by the time they reach Radzinsky, and I tend to take second-hand recollections with a grain of salt until I know more about the source-chain.

Ok, to be fair I don't think Radinsky is much of a reliable source about the private life of the IF.

I disagree. Radzinsky had access to the GARF archive before many other writers and drew information directly from the IF's private letters and diaries. I believe he's quite trustworthy when it comes to quoting directly from the IF's personal papers.

[Annie]

I really don't see this as something terrible, or even haughty and 'stuck up', it's just human behavior. Everyone loses their temper once in awhile, and everyone has personality conflicts with certain people. People become fed up with and lash out at people who are closest to them, even spouses and relatives. To add to all this, she was a teenage girl, at an age when most girls get some kind of 'attitude' whether or not they are a Grand Duchess.  You should have seen/heard the way my teenage daughter has treated/talked to me. Too much is being made of this.

[Douglas]

When I was a child my mother always had a cleaning lady, registered baby nurse,  elegant baby sitters, gardeners, pool cleaners, even a cook and servant  for fancy parties, etc. I always liked  to get the cleaning lady to read the magazines and eat some chocolate with me.

 For some strange reason I was such a snob as a child.  I used to brag about our household  help with school chums.  I'm embarrassed to think about it today.

I know how royal  childen can be.  Alexie was  just your typical boy.  A good thing I wasn't born into a royal family.

Today I am  polite and patient with  all people in service positions.  I'm  no better than they are.

Douglas....just a common man these days.....with age comes  a bit of maturity....I hope.

[Janet_W.]

Tsar Doug, for shame! Get back over to Imperial Claimants where you belong!

GD/GP Janet

[LisaDavidson]

I think that how children treat others has a great deal to do with how the parents expect them to behave. In my case, I was rude once to my grandmother's maid. It was the first and last time. My grandmother made me do Helen's job for a day (with the maid instructing me) and I never forgot it. So, I always treat people as well as I can - but anyone who depends on my goodwill for their living is someone I treat with the utmost courtesy. (With many thanks to Helen, who worked for my late grandmother for over 20 years, I hope I am a better person for it!).

Alexandra expected her children, but most especially her daughters - to treat others impecably, from everything I've learned about her.

[Douglas]

Oh hi there, Janet!  So nice of you to stop over on this thread.  I know, the curtain has lifted and now all world knows I put on my pants,  one leg at a time..

Lisa:

Great stories about your grandmother.  Amusing in their own manner also. Of course, you didn't laugh at that moment.

My mother had a way of bossing around her help and several even quit on her.  But in her defence she was a good person...she just didn't have the  knack of how to supervise others.  It's a real  talent to know how to get the housework done by others without being demanding.

Once she took me to the barber and after he finished, I jumped off the chair and walked outside whilst she paid the bill.  Boy did I get a scoulding outside on the  sidewalk.
She said the following, "When someone performs a 'personal' service for you....always say thank you."

Another time the cleaning lady broke my brand new bedroom light.  Naturally it was an accident. My idea was that the cleaning lady should pay for a new lamp. As you could imagine, that idea was dead on arrival with my mother.    "There is always a risk of damage when you hire someone and the employer [her] always assumes that risk."   Another lesson in life for a thirteen year old. 

 

[Michael HR]

Hi,

I recall when I looked at the accounts of the family it showed how each member paid their share of pensions  for staff that had retired and whom had worked for them. After March 1917 did these former staff still receave their pensions or were they lost when the Government absorbed the private finds of the Imperial Family?

If this has been posted before I apologise but this di dnot come up when I did a search.

Michael HR

[Valmont]

I do no think so, being the soviet government so anti-monarchist, I do not think they continued paying pensions for former staff members. I remember reading many years ago about one of the Dowager Empress’s Cossacks struggling to get a job and survive in St Petersburg after the revolution, still he always proudly wore his uniform as long as he could.

Arturo Vega-Llausás

[nena]

I don't think so. But I have read, each member of IF got pensions at Tobolsk. Ca. 600 rubles----- per mointh. I don't know it really happened.

[Angels of Innocence]

Forgive me if this is not where this is supposed to be. I was very unsure of where exactly this question would go. Also, sorry if there IS a topic... however, I have not found the answer to this one question. It is bothering me!  Maybe someone here can help?)

Where did the Guard live? I know it is a dumb question, but I only ever read about the Guard being there.
By Guard, I mean the ones who actually stayed and guarded the palace. I am not sure what the regiment was called....
I heard about some staying over night. I also read about them living in Barracks?? Where were those, if that is where they stayed and does anyone have a picture  of them?
What about close maids and servants? (And not so close maids and servants?)

Mostly though, I am concerned about the Guards. :/ Even if they did live off palace, did they live in nice houses?