Author Topic: Mad portuguese queens  (Read 19877 times)

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cantacuzene

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Mad portuguese queens
« on: July 04, 2005, 05:09:37 AM »
This topic is open to receive portraits, curiosities and discussions about Maria I "A rainha louca" "a piadosa", about Maria Pia of Savoy and about Isabel d'Aviz, portuguesse princess, queen of Castile and mother of Isabel la Católica, grandma of Joan , the mad queen of Castile. King Sebastian and other personnages are not excluded. I expect to post here as soon as possible full size images and curiosities. Meanwhile, all suggestions and comentaries are well received. Buenos días a todos,queridos amigos.

umigon

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Re: Mad portuguese queens
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2005, 05:55:08 AM »


I didn't know that Maria Pia of Savoy was mad!!!

I knew that indeed Maria I, Isabel de Aviz and King Sebastian were mad, but knew nothing about Maria Pia. I think the reasons for so many mad monarchs in Europe is the fact that Royal families intermarried so much. I mean, Isabel de Aviz was mad and passed her insanity to her grandaughter Joan the Mad who, in turn, passed it to infanta Juana of Austria and many other grandchildren and greatgrandchildren.


Maria I was mad with what was known in those times as ''melancholy''. She had inherited from her maternal grandfather, King Philip V of Spain!

Grand_Duke

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Re: Mad portuguese queens
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2005, 05:11:27 PM »
Quote
I didn't know that Maria Pia of Savoy was mad!!!


Maria Pia of Savoy wasn`t mad until her sond and grandson were assassinated in 1908.
Her pain and sorrow were so great that since the assassination she began to shown signs of mental instability.

Grand_Duke

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Re: Mad portuguese queens
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2005, 05:24:42 PM »
Quote
I knew that indeed Maria I, Isabel de Aviz and King Sebastian were mad, but knew nothing about Maria Pia. I think the reasons for so many mad monarchs in Europe is the fact that Royal families intermarried so much.


King Sebastian wasn't a true "mad" person: he had an eccentric behaviour due to his very strong religious and patriotic education since childhood. He became a fanatic! But consaguinity also played its tool since he was a sick person. Poor guy...  :-/

Maria I with her religious education, her sorrow for familiar's deaths (her mother, her uncle-husband and her eldest son all died in a short time from each other) and her fear about the French Revolution lead her to insanity!

umigon

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Re: Mad portuguese queens
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2005, 03:44:07 AM »
Maria's mental illness was exactly the same as Philip V's was. Not only produced because of the horrible things that happened, but also because it was an hereditary mental illness!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 06:53:28 PM by trentk80 »

cantacuzene

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Re: Mad portuguese queens
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2005, 04:54:17 AM »
Fist of all. Very glad , umigon and grand duke to read your suggestions. This becomes interesting. I have heard that Barbara de BraganÇa was one of the most capables queens we have had. Extremely cultivated, she was in fact le facteur d'equilibre (sorry, my english is so poor) de son epoux, who, afer her dead, became really mad. Well, this term Melancholy was in my oppinion the ancient and euphemistic name of la déprime nerneuse, so common actually. Barbara proteged the arts, les recherches scientifiques, surtout la botanique and was , it seems, an enormous heart plein de bonté . This supplied her famous lack of physical charms.What do you think about geographic or cultural determinisme? I know these theories are vieux jeu, but i can not avoid to think about portuguese culture, climat, people (in the case of people born far away of course)The case of Maria I, fearing the FR à tel point seems to me unique since Marie louise de parma, Carlota joaquina, Carolina of Naples and much more others even more proach continued continued their scandalous life. So, grand duc, i agree we must remarquer that sincere religiousness migh be really true in that queen. finally. Against all detractors, i dare to avoid my sympatie for joao VI, poor man, what a family, how many treasons, what an enormous charge!Mother, wife, childs, he would have reasons enogh to became crazy.      thanks, amigos.

  ah, i had forgotten. someone knows why in Portugal les perruques where not empowered, but brunes in ladies parure? I've seen thousands of portraits and ladies start to show their natural colour at the end of the century (Vigee Le Brun) These high black coiffures are quite uncommon in that time. Don't you think?

David_Pritchard

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Re: Mad portuguese queens
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2005, 03:43:24 PM »
It should be remembered that Queen Maria I of Portugal (reigned 1777-1816) who was the daughter of Jose I, reigned jointly with her husband and uncle Pedro III (reigned 1777-1786) who was the son of Joao V.

This situation could not have been healthy for the queen from a psychological stand point or for good genetics. Her instability is always attributed to the premature death of her oldest son. It was the second son from this consanguinous marriage, Dom Joao who became the Regent of Portugal in 1799 after Queen Maria I developed a long term mental illness.

DAP


cantacuzene

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Re: Mad portuguese queens
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2005, 05:26:18 AM »
Benedicta, who was Maria's sister, married her nephew, the prince you mention i think, much younger than she was. Consanguinity was incredible in this branch.

thanks David, I ignored that of Dom Joao.

Se dice que Dom Joao 'O Clemente' tenía un curioso modo de aplicar la justicia y era sumamente indolente.A este respecto se cuenta una anécdota cuya veracidad muchos ponen en duda pero que, no obstante, es simpática: Un ama de cría había asesinado a 35 niños a su cargo. cuando fue descubierta fue juzgada y dicen que absuelta. La respuesta de dom Joao fue que 'Si Dios la perdonó 34 veces, bien pueden los hombres perdonarla otra más'. Legends.

gogm

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Re: Mad portuguese queens
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2010, 03:08:35 PM »
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 06:47:36 PM by trentk80 »

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Mad portuguese queens
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2010, 05:04:04 AM »
Who is this Isabel Maria of Portugal?

http://gogmsite.net/_Media/isabel_maria_portugal_detin.png

To be honest, I don't see how it could be anyone but Maria I of Portugal - though she was Maria Francisca Isabel Josefa Antónia Gertrudes Rita Joana, not Isabel Maria.  The woman in question is dressed correctly for her year of accession of 1777 or a bit later,  she's holding a septre and has a monarch's closed crown in front of her, and the crown rests on papers entitled 'Cortes de Lamego', which were documents of rather questionable origin, which supposedly established in medieval times various laws amongst which were the royal succession in Portugal, including descent in the female line.  It looks like the picture carries the symbols of her right to rule.  I can't say she looks like other portraits I've seen, but none of them seem to look like each other anyway. 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 06:54:58 PM by trentk80 »

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Mad portuguese queens
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2010, 08:10:08 AM »
Yes. She was the mad woman of Queluz.

gogm

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Re: Mad portuguese queens
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2010, 12:26:35 AM »
Who is this Isabel Maria of Portugal?

http://gogmsite.net/_Media/isabel_maria_portugal_detin.png

To be honest, I don't see how it could be anyone but Maria I of Portugal - though she was Maria Francisca Isabel Josefa Antónia Gertrudes Rita Joana, not Isabel Maria.  The woman in question is dressed correctly for her year of accession of 1777 or a bit later,  she's holding a septre and has a monarch's closed crown in front of her, and the crown rests on papers entitled 'Cortes de Lamego', which were documents of rather questionable origin, which supposedly established in medieval times various laws amongst which were the royal succession in Portugal, including descent in the female line.  It looks like the picture carries the symbols of her right to rule.  I can't say she looks like other portraits I've seen, but none of them seem to look like each other anyway. 

I saw this identified as Maria I, confirming your identification.

Thank you!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 06:55:16 PM by trentk80 »