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Author Topic: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers  (Read 41668 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« on: September 05, 2005, 10:32:20 AM »
I know she has been discussed a little in the 'Charles I and Family' thread, but I think this indomitable Queen deserves a thread of her own.

Personally, I am in too minds about Henrietta - part of me thinks she fed Charles a lot of silly advice, but then again, she thought she was giving him good advice.

I once read a book about her, which started with the words that could pretty much sum her up in a nutshell: Henrietta Maria was very Catholic, and very French.

Please feel free to discuss her here! And I think there are plenty of pics of her on the other thread, so at the risk of repeating ourselves let's dispense with pics, unless they're new! thanks!  :)
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Offline trentk80

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2005, 10:51:24 AM »
I've always wondered what was her relationship with her children and grandchildren. Does anyone know this?
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2005, 10:54:00 AM »
Well, Charles, Henrietta and their children were considered an unusually close family.

She was always ready to give them advice (not always good) and kept track of their lives with great interest. She was close to Minette, her youngest, and Charles, her eldest.

As for her grandchildren, she apprently got on well with them, though she was never what you would call a 'lovely granny'. She even saw some of Charles's bastards from time to time, and James's daughter Anne spent time with her in France.
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline trentk80

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2005, 10:59:28 AM »
Thanks, Prince. Do you know in which English palaces Henrietta and her family used to live?
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2005, 11:03:48 AM »
In London, they mostly used Whitehall, and sometimes St James's. Hampton Court was used occassionally, too, and Oatlands was their country residence. Hope this helps!
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bell_the_cat

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2005, 11:29:34 AM »
And during the Civil war they lived in Oxford. I think in St John's College, where his statue still stands.

After the situation worsened Henrietta went off to France in 1644 - incredibly early I've always thought. She wasn't one for "standing by her man". Imagine Marie Antoinette going back to Austria in 1789 or Alexandra Fedorovna going back to England in 1917,  and leaving the children behind!

It's not very brave, but it saved her skin.

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2005, 11:32:59 AM »
I disagree bell - Henrietta loved Charles, and she left England only at his insistence. He was worried sick about her, and she rightfully saw that while he continued to worry he would never make good decisions. Also, she travelled to the Continent to try to drum up support and money for the English cause. Apprently, their parting was very, very sad . . .
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2005, 11:44:50 AM »
Oh you've made me feel totally heartless now! :'(

Why was he so worried about her, and not about the safety of his children? Was it because he knew that as a Frenchwoman she was not popular? Do you know which of the children went with her and which stayed?
I understand Charles and James went, and the younger ones stayed behind.

Was she successful in her fundraising efforts? I'll try to find some of the answers to these questions myself. I know you're a busy man!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
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umigon

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2005, 12:47:14 PM »


When she was in France she even sold some of her jewels to help Charles, so not the selfish and frivolous woman many pretend her to be!


I think she went alone to France. She "abandoned" her newborn Minette and went alone, I think. I know James and Minette crossed the seas to France disguised, the first as a girl and the second as a boy. And Henry arrived in France in 1653. About Princess Mary, I imagine she already lived in the Netherlands. The rest, I can't remember right now, i'll try to look up on it!
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bell_the_cat

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2005, 12:55:39 PM »
She was away before that! From August 1642 to the beginning of 1643 .Then she left for good in July 1644, leaving baby Henrietta behind.

James and Charles went with her, but returned to fight in various battles. Mary was already married to the Prince of Orange, so was out of the country anyway. Henrietta was sent to join her mother in 1646. Elizabeth and Henry stayed in England until the end of the war. Elizabeth died in 1650. She never saw her mother again.

Like the Queen of Bohemia and the Princess of Orange, Henrietta was supposed to have remarried secretly in exile. I don't suppose it's possible to know now whether this was true. As Pepys' diaries show, Restoration England was a society where everyone was inclined to believe the worst of everyone else.

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umigon

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2005, 01:14:48 PM »


I don't think remarrying was a bad thing! But of course it was bad press. Henrietta's sister-in-law, Queen Regent of France, Ana of Austria, was also suspected of have married Cardinal Mazarin. I don't think this is true, as they were both women of political intelligence. Yes, right, Henrietta not always gave good advice but she certainly knew that marrying again was a risk for her children's Crown of England, so I don't think she did it. And keep a lover... could have been but I am more inclined to thinking the contrary!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2005, 01:15:53 PM »
She didn't abandon Minette - Charles was with Minette at the time. And yes, Charles was also sent to France (young Charles, that is). James was kept in St James's Palace with Henry and Elizabeth, but escaped by playing hide and seek and dressing as a girl!
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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umigon

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2005, 01:18:09 PM »
I didn't mean she just left the poor baby over there without no one by her side!! ;D The baby had Charles and her governess. It was safer leaving her in England than taking her to a dangerous journey to France of which the final result Henrietta Maria didn't know!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2005, 01:21:10 PM »
Elizabeth and Harry weren't entirely abandoned either - Charles visited them several times. The first time, Elizabeth had not seen him in 5 years and Harry had no memory of him. 'Do you know me, child?' asked the King. When he heard no he said: 'I am your father and it is not the least of my misfortunes that I brought you into the world to share my misieries.'

When he saw them for the last time, and knew he would never see them again, he told Harry that he might be made a puppet king but must not accept the crown while his brother Charles and his brother James were alive. Harry replied - 'I'll be torn to pieces first!!'

Charles told them to obey their mother in everything, and tell her that his thoughts had never strayed from her.

'You will forget me,' he said to Elizabeth. 'Never!' she cried, crying, 'Never as long as I live!'

Heatrbreaking stuff . . .  :'(
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

umigon

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2005, 01:25:41 PM »
I've read this story before, and I can never help being heartbroken after reading it!


How sad... even more knowing that Elizabeth suddenly died before her fifteenth year, apparently of grief!
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