Author Topic: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers  (Read 43076 times)

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palatine

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2006, 04:23:41 PM »
Parliament was careful not to use the Bourbon name or make any mention of Henrietta's status as a French princess when they put her under attainder.  The charge itself did not cause a break between Parliament and France.  If they had executed her, I don't think anything would have changed; perhaps Mazarin might have recalled the French ambassador from London.

Mazarin was absolutely delighted by the Civil War, which kept Charles from interfering in the Thirty Years War and also kept him out of France's war against Spain.  He disliked Henrietta, who had taken her mother's side against him in the past.  He wouldn't have cared if Henrietta was executed, and he ran the show in France.  Anne of Austria was completely under his thumb.  Finally, France couldn't afford to open up another front.  Mazarin had an army in Germany and troops fighting against Spain as well.  France simply wouldn't have had the resources to go to war in England to avenge Henrietta, even if Mazarin had felt like doing so.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palatine »

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2006, 04:25:26 PM »
And yet Anne helped Henrietta financially while she was in France? ???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Prince_Lieven »
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palatine

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #77 on: January 30, 2006, 04:40:06 PM »
Mazarin didn't mind if Anne gave Henrietta a small pension and a place to live, but he refused to consider the idea of going to war in England, although Henrietta urged Anne and Mazarin to do so.  He persuaded Anne that it wasn't in France's best interests to help Charles.  Thanks to his inaction during the Thirty Years War, and his inability to manage his own domestic affairs, Charles had an incredibly low reputation on the Continent.  Mazarin honestly believed there was nothing to be gained for France by helping him.  

If Henrietta had been executed, I don't doubt that Anne would have been sad about it, but there would have been nothing for her to gain by going to war in England.  The wars in Germany and Spain, on the other hand, allowed France to gobble up territory.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palatine »

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #78 on: January 30, 2006, 04:42:01 PM »
Ok, thanks very much for clearing that up.  :)
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

umigon

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2006, 04:01:44 AM »
But maybe Henrietta's execution would have been so surprising and horrible that Frances and it's enemies could have made a truce to do something about England (Henrietta's sisters, Isabel and Christine, were married respectively to the king of Spain and the duke of Savoy).

It's recorded that when Felipe IV and Isabel were talking about the situation in England, the queen said that Charles deserved his fate for not behaving as he should but that he was right claiming his full powers. But then she said 'but by the way, didn't that idiot snub you sister Maria?' ... Not only the Spanish monarchs dislike their English brother-in-law, but they also weren't in the condition to make war to England... they had their own problems...

ilyala

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2006, 05:38:20 AM »
wars are not started because of family relations. family relations are always pretexts. and, as world war 1 shows, they mean nothing when you want to start one...

had france had any interest in england, they would have started a war, execution of henrietta or not. english execute henrietta - start a war for killing a french princess. not execute henrietta - start a war to defend the french princess. otherwise there's the toleration policy: give a pension to you relatives, feel sorry for them, go to teas and tell them that you can't afford a war right now...

palatine

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2006, 02:52:10 PM »
When the Civil War broke out, Spain was already at war with the Dutch and the French.  There were Spanish troops fighting for the Emperor in Germany.  Portugal had revolted against Spain, so there was a war going on there as well.  There were also Spanish colonies to protect from seizure by the Dutch and the French, and silver convoys to protect as well.  Spain was seriously overextended.

The Spanish had nothing to gain by helping Charles.  Even if Henrietta had been executed, Spain wouldn't have gone to war in England.  All this despite the fact that Charles had allied himself with Spain during his years of power, and had done many favors for the king of Spain.

The king of Spain was so unmoved by Charles's execution that he bought up many of Charles's paintings and treasures when they were auctioned off after his death.  I believe that Mazarin bought some of the collection too.      
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palatine »

bell_the_cat

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2006, 01:32:03 AM »
Palatine, I am anxiously awaiting the appearance of your book - "The Stuarts in exile"!!  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2006, 06:11:11 AM »
Me too.  ;D ;D
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2006, 09:13:18 AM »
About Charles's last meeting with his children. Didn't Charles recommend to Henry that he should stay true to the Church of England? And didn't Henrietta Maria do her best to convert him to Roman Catholicism?

Oh, and do we know what he was like?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2006, 09:55:36 AM »
Yes, that's all true Bell. But I think he may also have told them to obey Henrietta in everything - something of a contradiction!  ;)

By 'what was he like' do you mean Charles or Henry?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2006, 10:45:01 AM »
Quote
Yes, that's all true Bell. But I think he may also have told them to obey Henrietta in everything - something of a contradiction!  ;)

By 'what was he like' do you mean Charles or Henry?


Henry! We know what Charles was like - and he has his own thread now!

palatine

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #87 on: February 01, 2006, 02:55:09 PM »
Quote
Palatine, I am anxiously awaiting the appearance of your book - "The Stuarts in exile"!!  :D


You never know.  :)  There really is a need for a biography of Henrietta Maria that discusses foreign and domestic politics of the era, a biography that discusses her mistakes instead of minimizing or ignoring them.  

I think it’s unfortunate that so many modern biographers are determined to treat Henrietta as a misunderstood heroine rather than present her as she was: a deeply flawed woman who -with the best of intentions- helped destroy the people she loved best, her husband and Minette.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palatine »

elena_maria_vidal

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #88 on: February 01, 2006, 04:39:17 PM »
Quote
Palatine, I am anxiously awaiting the appearance of your book - "The Stuarts in exile"!!  :D


Me, too!!

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Henrietta Maria, Queen of the Cavaliers
« Reply #89 on: July 09, 2006, 05:24:55 PM »
Hi guys, Trentk80 asked me to post these pics. :)



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Prince_Lieven »
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."