Author Topic: Marguerite d'Anjou  (Read 34584 times)

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Offline Arianwen

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Marguerite d'Anjou
« on: September 08, 2005, 09:58:37 AM »
So, as promised, the new thread...

'Here's a topic. Marguerite d'Anjou. Discuss among yourselves.' ;)

Basic Facts:

- Born 23 March 1429 in Lorraine, daughter of Duc René d'Anjou and Isabelle de Lorraine (her father was the Duc de Lorraine)

- Married to Henry VI of England on 23 April 1445 at Titchfield Abbey, amid great opposition, and crowned on 30 May 1445 at Westminster Abbey

- Son Edward born 13 October 1453. When Edward was born, Henry declared he must be the son of the Holy Spirit. During most of Marguerite's pregnancy, Henry had fallen into fits of madness like his grandfather, Charles VI of France. Rumours began that the Duke of Somerset or the Duke of Suffolk was the actual father of little Edward.

- When war broke out between York and Lancaster, Marguerite showed herself an admirable general, willing to take incredible risks, but promised plunder in lieu of pay to her troops, who caused a trail of devastation thirty miles wide. England had cause to hate her and her army for decades to come. Whe Edward IV won Mortimer's Cross and Towton in 1461, entering London and being crowned (Henry VI had been catpured at this point), Marguerite fled with her son to France. In 1470, she was reconciled with the Earl of Warwick, the 'Kingmaker', who had turned on his cousin, Edward IV, and Warwick's younger daughter, Anne, was married to Marguerite's Edward. At Barnet and at Tewkesbury, Lancaster was finally defeated, and after Tewkesbury, George of Clarence's men caught up with the fleeing Edward of Lancaster and killed him. He was seventeen.

- Marguerite was captured by Edward IV's men, but not mistreated, and eventually ransomed to Louis XI of France, who made himself heir of her estate. She was returned to her father's lands in Anjou, where she died in exile and relative poverty on 25 August 1482. She was fifty-three.

I'll admit, my opinion of her is a bit on the acidic side, but I can also step back and say, 'Yes, I understand that. All right, I can give her that one.' I have a great deal of respect for her while not really liking her much...lol

Regards,
Arianwen

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2005, 10:56:48 AM »
Thanks Arianwen.  :)

I've always found Marguerite's alliance with Warwick and the King of France quite bizzare . . . it just goes to show how far she was willing to go to get her husband (and later son) the throne of England . . .
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Arianwen

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2005, 11:17:04 AM »
Quote
Thanks Arianwen.  :)

I've always found Marguerite's alliance with Warwick and the King of France quite bizzare . . . it just goes to show how far she was willing to go to get her husband (and later son) the throne of England . . .


I think it was more her son than her husband. She was fanatically devoted to Edward, from what I've always read, and never really all that attached to Henry.

Regards,
Arianwen

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2005, 11:20:03 AM »
She was likely very sensitive about the questions surrounding Edward's legitimacy or lack thereof . . . do you give any credence to the rumours he was a bastard?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2005, 11:27:12 AM »
I feel the same as you Ari. I don't like the woman but she has my grudging admiration. She was no simpering wall-flower, she had guts and determination and was very intrepid. She,quite rightly, has a reputation for ruthless aggression but then she was supporting the rights of her husband and son.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2005, 11:28:26 AM »
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She was likely very sensitive about the questions surrounding Edward's legitimacy or lack thereof . . . do you give any credence to the rumours he was a bastard?

And that was going to be my next question ;)
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2005, 11:42:49 AM »


Maggs, Henry and Edward:

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Arianwen

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2005, 12:03:52 PM »
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And that was going to be my next question ;)


lol Oh, yes, let's pull out the hard ones...;) To be completely honest, yes, I do give a degree of credence to the rumours. Was it possible? Certainly. When the 'father' of the child claims he wasn't responsible, in one of his rare moments of lucidity around that time...you have to wonder. Marguerite needed to produce a son. She wouldn't have been the first or the last queen to look outside the marriage bed to do so. Also, it's well-known how openly she favoured Suffolk and Somerset, and Somerset's sons. Was it probable? I don't know. I'm about 65%/35% on this one, leaning toward Edward being fathered by other than Henry VI.

Regards,
Arianwen

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2005, 12:39:22 PM »
Wasn't Suffolk killed in 1450, or am I mixing up my Suffolks?
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2005, 01:12:59 PM »
You are quite correct.william, the 1st Duke of Suffolk died in 1450.His son was john de la Pole who went on to marry Elizabeth plantagenet, sister of Edward IV. As for the supposed father of Edward Prince of Wales...my money is on the Duke of Somerset. 8)
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Offline Arianwen

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2005, 01:26:23 PM »
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You are quite correct.william, the 1st Duke of Suffolk died in 1450.His son was john de la Pole who went on to marry Elizabeth plantagenet, sister of Edward IV. As for the supposed father of Edward Prince of Wales...my money is on the Duke of Somerset. 8)


As is mine. The Somerset Beauforts were always her strongest supporters. Didn't just about all the Somerset men end up dying in the Lancastrian cause? Older Somerset in the mid-1460s, I don't remember how or when Henry died, Edmund after Tewkesbury, and John AT Tewkesbury...

Suffolk died too early to have fathered Edward, and rather horribly, as I recall. Decapitated on a ship in the Channel, with a rusty sword which took lots of strokes to do the job, and then, his body tossed into the water to wash up onshore? *shudders* Nasty bit of business, that...

Regards,
Arianwen

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2005, 01:35:47 PM »
I wonder what Marguerite and Elizabeth Woodville thought of each other . . .  ::) Two formiddable women on opposite sides of the WOTR . . .
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2005, 01:42:08 PM »
The Beauforts were certainly a virile lot :o and they can be very confusing because they are mostly ;Edmunds,Johns, Henrys etc. It can be hard to keep track of 'em.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2005, 01:44:08 PM »
i thought Elizabeth was a Maid of Honour to Marguerite. If that is true, I bet it really galled her to see Elizabeth become Queen.
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Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Marguerite d'Anjou
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2005, 02:30:54 PM »
Re: Suffolk

There's a joke in Henry VI Part 2 in the scene where Suffolk is murdered. Suffolk is on a boat and is understandably a bit nervous, as he has been told by a soothsayer that he will "die by water". He asks the man standing next to him what is name is. The answer - Walter!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)