Author Topic: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility  (Read 95985 times)

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Offline TampaBay

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The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« on: September 10, 2005, 04:05:25 PM »
Could someone please give an overview of the three "families" with a claim to the French Throne and how or why they justify their claims?

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by TampaBay »
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2005, 05:56:53 PM »
Hi TB, great to see you over here.  :)

Which three claimants do you mean? I know of the Orleans one but I don't know about the others?
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Offline jackie3

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2005, 06:49:01 PM »
I assume we're talking about:
1. Henri D'Orleans, Count of Paris (descended from King Louis Phillipe, King of the French), the House of Orleans are descendants of Louis XIII, I suppose the Count of Paris is regarded by most French as the rightful Pretender to the non-existent throne.

2. Luis Alfonso de Borbon (or in France Louis Alphonse), Duke of Anjou, descended from Louis XIV (through his grandson Phillip V of Spain), cousin of King Juan Carlos of Spain, the grandson of Don Jamie, the son of King Alfonso of Spain, who was a deaf-mute and abdicated his rights in favor of his brother Don Juan (father of Juan Carlos). Luis Alfonso is also the grandson of General Franco and he just recently got married.
Since Don Jamie and his descendants were no longer elgible for the Spanish throne and because Luis Alfonso is the senior male-line descendant of Hugh Capet, Legitimists view him as the Pretender rather than the desendants of the regicide Phillip Egalite d'Orleans (who voted for the execution of his cousin, Louis XIV)

3. Prince Napoleon, descendant of one of the brothers of Napoleon I, I don't know if there is any serious Bonapartists these days though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by jackie3 »

Offline TampaBay

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2005, 07:18:33 PM »
jackie3,

Thanks!

I understand that the followers or adherents of "1." cannot stand the follower or adherents of "2."

Who did the head of the house of "2." recently marry? Was it an equal marriage?

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by TampaBay »
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2005, 07:18:01 AM »
Umm . . . I don't know, TB, but I think Umigon probably will . . .  :D
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Offline umigon

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2005, 07:29:06 AM »


Luis Alfonso married last year a rich Sudamerican heiress, María Margarita de Vargas y Santaella, born in 1983. María Margarita is not a noble, and is far from being a royal, but France doesn't force its princes to marry into royalty or the higher nobility, so this marriage, to the eyes of Luis Alfonso's supporters, is not morganatic and they are 'le Roi Louis XX' and 'la Reine Marie Marguerite'.
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Offline umigon

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2005, 07:30:33 AM »
Luis Alfonso's parents were Alfonso de Borbón y Dampierre (1936-1989), duke of Cadiz, and María del Carmen Martínez-Bordiú y Franco (1951-), grandaughter of General Franco.

Luis Alfonso had an older brother, Francisco, born in 1972, who died in 1984 in a car wreck.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2005, 07:32:15 AM »
 :D I told you Umigon would know . . .
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Offline Lucien

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2005, 08:24:40 AM »
Quote
I assume we're talking about:
1. Henri D'Orleans, Count of Paris (descended from King Louis Phillipe, King of the French), the House of Orleans are descendants of Louis XIII, I suppose the Count of Paris is regarded by most French as the rightful Pretender to the non-existent throne.

2. Luis Alfonso de Borbon (or in France Louis Alphonse), Duke of Anjou, descended from Louis XIV (through his grandson Phillip V of Spain), cousin of King Juan Carlos of Spain, the grandson of Don Jamie, the son of King Alfonso of Spain, who was a deaf-mute and abdicated his rights in favor of his brother Don Juan (father of Juan Carlos). Luis Alfonso is also the grandson of General Franco and he just recently got married.
Since Don Jamie and his descendants were no longer elgible for the Spanish throne and because Luis Alfonso is the senior male-line descendant of Hugh Capet, Legitimists view him as the Pretender rather than the desendants of the regicide Phillip Egalite d'Orleans (who voted for the execution of his cousin, Louis XIV)

3. Prince Napoleon, descendant of one of the brothers of Napoleon I, I don't know if there is any serious Bonapartists these days though.


Prince Charles Napoléon lives in Ajaccio,Corsica.He'll be in The Netherlands in a few weeks to open an exhibition.The link also gives some info about what HIH is doing at present.

http://www.armymuseum.nl/legermuseum.en/legermuseum.en/i000343.html
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Offline Lucien

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2005, 08:46:47 AM »
And the same link in Dutch,but the picture is different.

http://www.legermuseum.nl/legermuseum.nl/legermuseum.nl/i000414.html

The text says that Charles ambition is not the Crown,he's a republican(sit down and take a breath,for those who need it.........),he's involved in Corsican politics and his aims are more for a career in regional- and maybe national politics.

There is ofcourse always the chance he once will be elected President de la Republique,and subsequently announce the re-creation of the French Empire,it was done before after all,wasn't it.......again take a deep breath,there,see,I knew you would feel much better now........
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Offline umigon

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2005, 08:54:23 AM »


A Third Empire in France!! Well, then Spain's summers are rainy! he he ;)


I don't think he could do that, could he? Are you French, Lucien?
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Offline Lucien

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2005, 09:50:19 AM »
I don't know,at present I don't think he could do that,but history proved stranger things have happened,as some threads here on this Forum proved...

No I'm not French,I'm Dutch.
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2005, 10:12:15 AM »
Btw, 'd'Orleans voted for the death of Louis XVI, not the XIV. He went to the guillotine himself  eventually.
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Offline Lucien

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2005, 10:19:25 AM »
Ah,see,that's what happens to treators.Family!Can be such a nuisance at times,don't you think?..... ;D
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Offline jackie3

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2005, 11:21:56 PM »
Quote
Btw, 'd'Orleans voted for the death of Louis XVI, not the XIV. He went to the guillotine himself  eventually.


Oops. I got my V's and I's in the wrong order. As for Egalite, I once skimmed through the memoirs of his son King Louis Phillipe and although he was very retiecent about it was obvious the action (voting for the death of the King - especially he had promised to the last minute to either abstain or not be present) caused HIS family a lot of pain, L-P tried to talk his father out of it and he and his family (the Orleans branch) have paid the price of being tied to Egalite ever since.

Personally I think Phillipe d'Orleans like a lot of the more extreme revolutionists who followed him got their just desserts. Once they went down the rode of cutting people's heads off and putting on show trials (in the case of Marie Antionette) then it was just a matter of time before it caught up to them.


Quote
There is ofcourse always the chance he once will be elected President de la Republique,and subsequently announce the re-creation of the French Empire,it was done before after all,wasn't it.......again take a deep breath,there,see,I knew you would feel much better now........


Ah, yes, now that you mention it I seem to recall Napoleon I and Napoleon III both calling themselves true "Republicans" as well...and we know how that turned out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by jackie3 »