Author Topic: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility  (Read 107978 times)

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Robert_Hall

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #120 on: September 19, 2006, 05:55:37 PM »
Is anybody even moderating these posts? One thread was quite interesting until taken over bible thumping bigotry.

BorbonFan

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #121 on: September 19, 2006, 06:05:28 PM »
There's been far to much personal banter (not to mention abstract theological discussion) on this thread that really doesn't belong on this forum. Any more of it and I think I'll have to lock this thread.

I agree with the personal part, but not with the theological part: this thread topic - prophecies -, regardless of their subject, is by definition linked to faith and theology. If by "abstract theology" you mean theology unrelated to the prophecies, then sure, I agree it is off-topic. However, theology related to the prophecies is not off-topic.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #122 on: September 20, 2006, 05:13:30 PM »
There's been far to much personal banter (not to mention abstract theological discussion) on this thread that really doesn't belong on this forum. Any more of it and I think I'll have to lock this thread.

Prince_L is absolutely correct. He spoke in his position as moderator--and thus with the authority of the FA--and it's time to stop now. Any personal complaints, comments and, especially, snide remarks, are best kept to PMs rather than drag the rest of the Forum into it. The tone taken on this, and other, similar threads has raised all sorts of complaints to various moderators.

BourbonFan--you wrote "I agree with the personal part, but not with the theological part: this thread topic - prophecies -, regardless of their subject, is by definition linked to faith and theology. If by "abstract theology" you mean theology unrelated to the prophecies, then sure, I agree it is off-topic. However, theology related to the prophecies is not off-topic."

This may be true but there has still been too much straying from the topic at hand--many of the theological discussions, and the response to them, don't seem related to the prophecies. Maybe this is incorrect but if so the posts needed to worded (by all) better.
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BorbonFan

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #123 on: September 20, 2006, 06:46:04 PM »
In the next year or so we should have a first confirmation of whether Nostradamus' prophecies are true or not, including those mentioned in the first message about the restoration of Monarchy in France under a Spanish King, who is said will unite Spain and France under his sceptre.

Quatrain VI 54 is the key to dating all of Nostradamus' prophecies and the one which will provide us with a reality check of their validity.

VI 54
Au poinct du iour au second chant du coq
Ceux de Tunes, de Fez, & de Bugie :
Par les Arabes captif le Roy Maroq,
L'an mil six cens & sept de Liturgie.

At daybreak at the second crowing of the cock,
Those of Tunis, of Fez and of Bougie,
By the Arabs the King of Morocco captured,
The year sixteen hundred and seven, of the Liturgy.

Link: http://www.sacred-texts.com/nos/mrg/nosmrg06.htm

The quatrain speaks quite clearly of an Arab invasion in Northern Africa -- in Tunisia, Algeria (with its city of Fez) and Morocco, whose King the Arabs will capture. This invasion is to take place in the year "1607 of the Liturgy." If "of the Liturgy" means "since the very first Liturgy," i.e. that celebrated in memory of Christ immediately after His Ascension to the Heavens in the year 33 AD, the year 1607+33=1650 AD should have already witnessed this Arab invasion. A brief recourse to history proves nothing of this sort happenned in any of the three North African countries in 1650. Thus, the expression must mean "since the Liturgy as I know it" - that is, as it was known in Nostradamus' lifetime.

Which Liturgy, though? The Catholic One or the Orthodox One? The Orthodox One used during the vast majority of the year is that of St. John Chrysostom. He had finished It by 397 when he leaves Antioch due to his election as Archbishop of Constantinople, according to Encyclopaedia Catholica: "It is true that most of these homilies were preached at Antioch (387-397) before he went to Constantinople. It would seem, then, that the Liturgy of St. Chrysostom was in great part that of his time at Antioch, and that he introduced it at the capital when he became patriarch." If we add 1607 to 397, we get 2004, clearly not a correct year, as none of these foretold events occurred in 2004.

Thus, it follows that "the Liturgy" must mean the Catholic One, That of St. Ambrose used in the West since "about 400" AD according to the same Encyclopaedia: "By the fifth century we come back to comparatively firm ground, after a radical change. At this time we have the fragment in Pseudo-Ambrose, "De sacramentis" (about 400. Cf. P.L., XVI, 443), and the letter of Pope Innocent I (401-17) to Decentius of Eugubium (P.L., XX, 553). In these documents we see that the Roman Liturgy is said in Latin and has already become in essence the rite we still use." If we add 1607 to "about 400", it follows that next year or so we should have a clear confirmation of whether or not Nostradamus is a legitimate prophet.
 
Even if this quatrain does not become fulfilled next year or the following, it doesn't mean that Nostradamus was a charlatan. It may simply mean that my interpretation key is wrong and that by "of the Liturgy" he may have meant something different.

Regardless, Nostradamus is not a saint of the Church and as such his prophecies carry nowhere nearly as much credibility as those of St. Methodius of Patara, St. Brigitta of Sweden, or St. Seraphim of Sarov, which speak of a Spanish Bourbon King and of the French Monarchy. However, if this key prophecy does become true next year or so (by 2008 at the latest), it logically follows that since even somebody much less than a saint was inspired by God with such a proven gift of prophecy, even more so then God's saints must be believed and their prophecies must be expected to become reality, for the strenghtening of the faith of those who hear them and see them fulfilled.

God bless!
Borbon Fan
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 07:13:23 PM by BorbonFan »

ilyala

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #124 on: September 21, 2006, 01:44:24 AM »
can i laugh at this or would that be offensive to anyone?  :D :D

bell_the_cat

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #125 on: September 21, 2006, 01:53:29 AM »
Yes, Ilyala , it would be, as it is now forbidden to make negative comments about the prophecies! :)

Back to the prophecies...

BorbonFan, just why will the Arabs be invading North Africa next year - they are already there. You are surely aware that Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco are all Arab nations (  though they contain other nationalities such as Berbers etc. Have you any view on who the King of the Arabs might be?



bell_the_cat

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #126 on: September 21, 2006, 01:56:31 AM »
I think you are wise to put Nostradamus in a separate category!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2006, 01:59:32 AM by bell_the_cat »

ilyala

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #127 on: September 21, 2006, 01:58:14 AM »
ok, now seriously. how many signs (except nostradamus of course) do you see of spain and france being joint as one country? i see none.

let's put it this way: they are in the european union already together, that already makes them quite united, why should they want to be more united than that? if you want, we can see the prophecy and interpret it in the eu context, but i don't think that's what you meant, is it?

i for one don't think that the french and spanish people will suddenly realize they're one nation and unite under the spanish king. but feel free to contradict me with on-topic valid arguments.

BorbonFan

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #128 on: September 21, 2006, 07:23:12 AM »
ok, now seriously. how many signs (except nostradamus of course) do you see of spain and france being joint as one country? i see none.

let's put it this way: they are in the european union already together, that already makes them quite united, why should they want to be more united than that? if you want, we can see the prophecy and interpret it in the eu context, but i don't think that's what you meant, is it?

i for one don't think that the french and spanish people will suddenly realize they're one nation and unite under the spanish king. but feel free to contradict me with on-topic valid arguments.

You bring up valid points in terms of the current reality. However, this topic isn't so much about the current reality. It is rather about one's faith - faith in God and His prophecies given to His people for the strengthening of their faith.

ilyala

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #129 on: September 21, 2006, 07:50:34 AM »
god does his deeds the way he does them. but in the entire history of humanity, how many times has god done anything out of the blue? each and every time a process as complex as the unification of two countries was done, it was done slowly and with patience. if god had anything to do with it, he probably influenced people to be favorable towards it. but god's influence was subtle enough to be simply considered a natural process....

if you believe in god you might call eu a miracle - countries not only not at war anymore but volontarily uniting with each other. but it has been done slowly and surely rather than out of the blue.

i sincerely doubt god will change his mind and start performing more sudden miracles than he has in the past.

BorbonFan

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #130 on: September 21, 2006, 07:59:40 AM »
but in the entire history of humanity, how many times has god done anything out of the blue? (...)
i sincerely doubt god will change his mind and start performing more sudden miracles than he has in the past.
God did many wonders all of a sudden rather than slowly many times in the history of mankind : He split the waters of the Red Sea when His people were being chased by the Egyptians, He stopped the Sun in its course on the sky to allow His people to see and win the battle, He made the walls of Jericho fall, He walked on water, He turned water into wine, He multiplied the fish and bread, He healed the paralytics, He raised people from the dead, He resurrected from the dead and ascended into Heaven.

I, on the contrary, believe it's high time God did miracles to put a stop to the accelerated decline of Christianity brought about by secularism with the main help of the so-called democratic press, started with the French revolution and continued through all the subsequent ones (1830, 1848, 1917, etc.). The church attendance rates are abysmal in the West of Europe. Christianity is dying. Unless He does something drastic about it, as His prophecies foretell, all the people will soon return to the pre-Christian pagan times of worship of idols - the intellect, the human body, the pleasures.

God bless!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2006, 08:24:33 AM by BorbonFan »

BorbonFan

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #131 on: September 21, 2006, 08:43:21 AM »
BorbonFan, just why will the Arabs be invading North Africa next year - they are already there. You are surely aware that Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco are all Arab nations (  though they contain other nationalities such as Berbers etc. Have you any view on who the King of the Arabs might be?

Very good point! Yes, I am aware. Arabs might mean not just Arab invaders from abroad, but also local fundamentalist Arabs (i.e. extremist Islamists) staging a coup d'etat, an Islamist revolution like the Iranian one.

Some prophecies speak of a Persian king. But ethnically Persians (Iranians) are not Arabs. That's why honestly I do not have too good an idea who the Arab King might be. After all, there might be none if we go with the second interpretation that instead of an Arab invasion, we may have Arab/Islamist revolutions in all of these countries.

Offline Marlene

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #132 on: September 21, 2006, 09:11:24 AM »


Can't wait for those pagan times to return ... ah,  St. Chocolate.  St. Mickey  St. Macy's.

but in the entire history of humanity, how many times has god done anything out of the blue? (...)
i sincerely doubt god will change his mind and start performing more sudden miracles than he has in the past.
God did many wonders all of a sudden rather than slowly many times in the history of mankind : He split the waters of the Red Sea when His people were being chased by the Egyptians, He stopped the Sun in its course on the sky to allow His people to see and win the battle, He made the walls of Jericho fall, He walked on water, He turned water into wine, He multiplied the fish and bread, He healed the paralytics, He raised people from the dead, He resurrected from the dead and ascended into Heaven.

I, on the contrary, believe it's high time God did miracles to put a stop to the accelerated decline of Christianity brought about by secularism with the main help of the so-called democratic press, started with the French revolution and continued through all the subsequent ones (1830, 1848, 1917, etc.). The church attendance rates are abysmal in the West of Europe. Christianity is dying. Unless He does something drastic about it, as His prophecies foretell, all the people will soon return to the pre-Christian pagan times of worship of idols - the intellect, the human body, the pleasures.

God bless!
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/

Offline Kimberly

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #133 on: September 21, 2006, 09:20:38 AM »
Ooooh, Marlene :o ;D
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Offline Taren

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #134 on: September 21, 2006, 01:03:36 PM »
I just caught the last couple of pages of this, so I'm probably missing something, but haven't a great many of Nostradamus' predictions not come through? Also, BorbonFan, were you saying that Nostradumus' prophesies speak for God? Please don't say I'm putting words in your mouth, because that was just the impression I got and if I'm wrong I'm wrong. Anyway, I was always brought up with the notion that one should not put their faith in psychics and those that predict the future.

Dueteronomy 18:10-12 says Neither let there be found among you any one that shall expiate his son or daughter, making them to pass through the fire: or that consulteth soothsayers, or observeth dreams and omens, neither let there be any wizard,
nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead. For the Lord abhorreth all these things, and for these abominations he will destroy them at thy coming.

There is a noted psychic, Sylvia Browne. She prophesses to have great faith in God. She has also predicted that the Pope would die every year until he finally did and then that he would be succeeded by a pope of African descent. She, like Nostradamus, is right sometimes and wrong sometimes -despite her faith in God.

It's fun to look at things like prophesies and things fortune tellers and psychics say, but it can be dangerous when people say that they will happen. Putting your faith in man for anything is never a good idea. Just saying.