Author Topic: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility  (Read 96984 times)

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Offline britt.25

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #165 on: July 01, 2008, 02:05:09 PM »
Thank you, Lucien for saying what I wanted to say...somewhere this all was so evident, we know this member, if he has one, two or hundred nicknames, it does not matter....I also think Charles would make a good job for France....
The duc d'Anjou seems to be an interesting man, too, indeed, but as you said there will never be a monarchy in France again. Interesting was to me that "Louis XX" is great-grandson of Franco....And I always thought our certain member dislikes dictators... ;D
BW: has anyone seen recent pictures of his daughter?


La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

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Offline dmitryalex777

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #166 on: July 01, 2008, 04:27:08 PM »
Quote
You mean to say you are here for the first time under this alias,we know you are a Bourbonfan dear.

You are mistaken. My name is Dmitry, and this my present name. I don't know this guy BourbonFan.


And still I wish to warn you. Dmitry Russian is absolutely my namesake and even my compatriot, but I could not contact with him. Dmitry Russian somewhere was gone, and I cannot contact with him in any way.

If my English is very bad, please, excuse me, I only recently have started to study English


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I prefer Charles Prince Napoléon over all sorts of lines of Bourbons/Orléans.

Why do you prefer Charles Napoleon over all sorts of lines of Bourbons/Orleans? Please, explain
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 04:36:22 PM by dmitryalex777 »

Offline Mari

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #167 on: July 02, 2008, 04:00:13 AM »
O.K. I'll vote for the Bourbon  ;D I am not a big Napoleon fan either. But I have a question explain this ...

on the Duc d' Anjou
His engagement to marry Venezuelan heiress Maria Margarita de Vargas y Santaella was announced in November 2003. They were married on November 6, 2004 in La Romana, Dominican Republic. None of the members of the Spanish Royal Family attended the wedding. Though no official reason was given, it is not a secret that the King of Spain does not like his cousin's claim to the French throne and the fact that Luis Alfonso signed the wedding invitation as Duke of Anjou did not sit well with the king.
Quote

As the claim to the French throne will not happen that I can foresee why would there be animosity over this?

Offline tecklenburg

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #168 on: July 02, 2008, 05:01:34 AM »
Hello

I think that the Duke of Sevilla & his brother were present at the marriage of Louis-Alphonse. So it's a good start :)
HM the King of Spain is closely related to the Orleans branch by his mother, and he spent part of his youth with his Orleans cousins. So his fidelity is understandable. But it's sad that often in families, the mother's side relations are more precious. There should be more equity...
There is a contradiction because on the one's side HM the King supports his cousin Carlos who claims the crown of Two-Siciles & on the others side he agrees with the Orleans about the renounciations of the Spanish Bourbon to the throne of France. Can someone explain me?

To qualify this vision of the king's hostility to his Bourbon cousins, we won't forget that he was close to the sons of his uncle Jaime. Alfonso/Alphonse was chosen to be the godfather of HRH Infanta Cristina. The royal family of Spain attended the funerals of the Duke of Anjou & Cadiz. Louis-Alphonse attended the wedding of the Prince of Asturias.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 05:04:52 AM by tecklenburg »

Offline beladona

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #169 on: July 02, 2008, 06:12:18 AM »
Hello, I am not specialist on succession of the French throne, and that is why I have probably two very unimportant questions:
What about marriages of Luis-Alphonse father (Alfonso 1936-1989; married Maria del Carmen Martínez-Bordiu y Franco) and grandfather (Jaime, Duque de Segovia, 1908-1975; married and divorced to Emanuela de Dampierre)? Are they considered morganatic or not? (I mean for supposed French succession)
Second: Philippe V. had to renounce the rights to the French throne, had not he? Or it is not valid?
(sorry for bad english...)

Offline mcdnab

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #170 on: July 02, 2008, 12:33:07 PM »
That's an intelligent question  i've never really considered that either marriage (and you could include his own as well making it three marriages) would have been considered by a French Bourbon in the 18th Century as a royal one - however my understanding that in France no such thing as a morganatic marriage really existed (rather like in Britain) although secret marriages did exist where the wife wasn't recognised by her husbands title.  So technically that shouldn't damage  his rights - his grandfather renounced his rights in Spain (and at the time his marriage would have been morganatic in Spain) - the arguement really rests on the validity of the renunciations in the treaty of utrecht and how they were subsequently treated and regarded.

Offline Carol Jean

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #171 on: July 08, 2008, 07:12:21 AM »
Hi, I too would like to know is there a male descendant living now of one of the brothers of Louis XVI? Who would he be and what is his name and title? Is there a male in a direct line down from one of Louis XVI's brothers? Not just a male heir from the family but a direct descendant. Thanks for you answer.

Offline Stefan22

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #172 on: July 08, 2008, 07:17:49 AM »
Hello, I am not specialist on succession of the French throne, and that is why I have probably two very unimportant questions:
What about marriages of Luis-Alphonse father (Alfonso 1936-1989; married Maria del Carmen Martínez-Bordiu y Franco) and grandfather (Jaime, Duque de Segovia, 1908-1975; married and divorced to Emanuela de Dampierre)? Are they considered morganatic or not? (I mean for supposed French succession)
Second: Philippe V. had to renounce the rights to the French throne, had not he? Or it is not valid?
(sorry for bad english...)

There was nver a requierment fior an french dynast to marry a woman from a reigning or former reigning Royal/Princely/Grand Duxcal House like it was in Spain or in Austria. So the marriage is dynastic.
Stefan

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #173 on: July 08, 2008, 10:26:10 AM »
The only requirement for French royal marriages was that the bride be a Catholic. France did not have morganatic marriages.
  As for Louis XVIs brothers, Louis XVIII died without any issue.
 And Charles X's grandson, Henri [V]  Duc de Bordeaux, Comte de Chambord also died without issue in1883.   From then on, the  Head of the Royal House of France passed to the Orleans branch.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Norbert

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #174 on: July 08, 2008, 02:52:12 PM »
Morganatic marriages were contracted by the French Royal House for example Louis XIV and Madame de Maintenon.

 Royalists recognise The Count of Paris  ( Duke of France) as the legitimate heir to the throne of France. As regards a restoration ...who knows. After the death of Louis XVI, France was to have 6 republics, 2 Empires and a legitimist monarchy followed by the "Citizen King". On the fall of the second Empire a Royalist Duke was elected President !  De Gaulle dreaming of Jeanne d'Arc regretted that the the last Count of Paris did not join him in London so that they could have liberated France together.

Offline beladona

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #175 on: July 08, 2008, 04:41:44 PM »
The only requirement for French royal marriages was that the bride be a Catholic. France did not have morganatic marriages.

So does it means, that House of Orleans has its own law of "succession" and rules of "morganatic" and "non-morganatic" marriages?
See notices in Paul Theroff genealogy of France:
Thibaut (youngest son of Henri, Comte de Paris) Louis Denis Humbert Marie, Cte de la Marche (Sintra, Portugal 20 Jan 1948-Bamingui, Central Africa 23 Mar 1983); m. morganatically, according to Orléanist house law)(Edinburgh 23 Sep 1972 Marion Gordon-Orr (b.Santiago, Chile 4 Sep 1942)

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #176 on: July 08, 2008, 05:25:24 PM »
Personally, I would not know what the House of Orleans does,  but the succession to the head of the house of France  was not determined by equal marriages.  It the "ruling days"  marriages were more political alliances than anything else.
 In contemporary terms,  the whole idea is out the window.  The House Of France, no matter who one supports is full of divorces, mistresses and more than "unequal" marriages.
 As there is no throne of France to inherit, nor likely is there to be, the whole concept of "morganatic" and "Equal" is silly and elitist
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline britt.25

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #177 on: July 10, 2008, 01:14:50 AM »
One has to notice that it is a special strategy by a "special member" from us to repeat this topic over and over again....
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline beladona

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #178 on: July 10, 2008, 04:54:47 AM »
As there is no throne of France to inherit, nor likely is there to be, the whole concept of "morganatic" and "Equal" is silly and elitist

Of course, it is only "academic" discussion, but some people are happy to repeat this theme and speculate about it again and again...

Offline Norbert

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Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
« Reply #179 on: July 10, 2008, 11:30:34 AM »
Europe is the land of thrones...lets see what happens