Archduke Ferdinand, Karl-Ludwig's son

[Linnea]

I thought this too, Svetabel! The "girl" is actually Franz Ferdinand .

[MarieCharlotte]

Aaah, Marie José was born in March 1857 ... of course. I mixed it up with someone else.  

[Linnea]

Marie Therese was born in 1855...Is she your favourite royal?

[MarieCharlotte]

She's one of my favourite royals ...  

Daniela, thanks ... I've been collecting pics for years. Some of them are quite rare.

[Daniela]

I've been collecting pics for years. Some of them are quite rare

MarieCharlotte, I have a couple of questions - you've said that you collect photos for years. But, where do you find them? I mean, do you find them in some old stores, bookstores... I am just curious.

And, can you tell me where is located Gorz. I don't know where is it.

Marie Therese was the one who visited Archduke Otto when he was very ill shortly before his death. Marie Therese didn't care that Otto's two mistresses also looked after him.

And then my last question, regarding the above quote; didn't Otto's wife Maria Josepha lived with him and took care of him. What happened with their marriage? I know that he had other relationships, but it was that bad in their marriage?

Thanks in advance.

Daniela

[MarieCharlotte]

Dear Daniela,

1) I have many (rare) books with lots and lots of pictures in it and some royal postcards. But I found most of the pics somewhere in the internet, especially on ebay. For the most beautiful pics you have to go to the "Österreichische Nationalbibliothek" in Vienna. There is the so-called "Bildarchiv" where you can find pics of almost every royal. The people who work there are very nice. (BTW: I have only one CDV, because they are really expensive. It shows Duchess Maria Theresia of Württemberg, Archduchess of Austria).

2) Görz is in Tirol, Austria. Maria Annunziata had problems with her lungs and the climate there was better for her health.

3) Otto caused Maria Josepha some embarrassing situations. One day he went with the men, he usually drank bear and wine with, into the bedroom of his wife and said: "Look at this nun."
Soon after their marriage, Otto and Maria Josepha went separate ways. He lived with one of his mistresses and Maria Josepha lived with her sons Karl and Maximilian in the Augartenpalais, Vienna. Today this is the residence of the "Wiener Sängerknaben".
Otto had relationships to Marie Schleinzer and Louise Robinson. He was the father of the illegitimate children Hilde and Alfred. Maria Josepha herself had a relationship to famous Austrian actor Otto Tressler who even played in "Sissi I".
When Otto became seriously ill, Maria Josepha didn't care. After his death, she instructed Otto's servants to disinfect the room. Otherwise she wouldn't have entered the room.

[Daniela]

Thanks MarieCharlotte , for photos and for explanation on books and the rest.

Can you tell me what is "Wiener Sängerknaben"?

And also, what kind of relationship Karl and Maximilian had with their father?

Oh, did Otto mantain contact with his brother Ferdinand after he had married Bertha?

Thanks.

Daniela

[MarieCharlotte]

Dear Daniela,

you don't know the "Wiener Sängerknaben"? This is a very famous group of boys who have beautiful voices. If you are a "Wiener Sängerknabe" you must be very talented. They sing in churches, but they also give concerts. Now they live in the "Augartenpalais" in Vienna, where Archduchess Maria Josepha lived until 1906.

I read that Otto was quite a good father, although he didn't spend much time with his family. He loved to take pictures of his sons. He allowed them unconventional things like sitting on the table. Maria Josepha didn't appreciate that of course.

BTW, Otto was called "der schöne Otto" ("handsome Otto") and was the favourite son of his father Karl Ludwig.
I read that during their childhood, Otto was very close to Franz Ferdinand. Franz himself loved his little sister Margarethe Sophie a lot. But I know nothing about Ferdinand's relationship to his siblings at all. But I can't imagine that Otto had contact to Ferdinand after he had married Berta. Otto even disliked Franz Ferdinand's marriage.

Marie  

[Daniela]

you don't know the "Wiener Sängerknaben"?

Yes, I know who are they, but I know this group of singing boys under different name - "Dunajski decki", which means Viennese boys.

Berta and Ferdinand lived in Schloss Rosenstein and Rottenstein near Meran.

But, can you tell me more about Berta and Ferdinand, what did they do in their life. Can you tell me what were they interested...
I know I'm nosy, but can you help me?
And, they lived near Meran. Does this mean that they had contacts with Counts of Meran?

Thanks, Daniela.

[MarieCharlotte]

Hi Daniela,

I'm sorry, but I didn't find much more information on Ferdinand and Berta in my books.

I just read that their marriage was very happy.

The only royal members who took part in his funeral were Archduchess Marie Therese and her sister Marie José as well as someone from the royal family of Neaples.

Maybe someone else can help?

Best wishes, Marie

[Daniela]

OK, thanks, MarieCharlotte.

Daniela

[YaBB_Jose]

Otto had relationships to Marie Schleinzer and Louise Robinson. He was the father of the illegitimate children Hilde and Alfred. Maria Josepha herself had a relationship to famous Austrian actor Otto Tressler who even played in "Sissi I".

I didn't know of that.
Were Otto's children by the same mother or one by each ?
What happened with them ? Did they maintain any contact with their half-brothers (assuming these knew of their existance) and did they left descendance ?
Are there any photos of the mistresses, the children and of Otto Tressler ?
Did Maria Josepha's relation took place during Franz Josef's reign  ?

[MarieCharlotte]

Were Otto's children by the same mother or one by each ?
What happened with them ? Did they maintain any contact with their half-brothers (assuming these knew of their existance) and did they left descendance ?
Are there any photos of the mistresses, the children and of Otto Tressler ?
Did Maria Josepha's relation took place during Franz Josef's reign   ?

Otto had his son Alfred and his daughter Hilde by Marie Schleinzer.

[YaBB_Jose]

Well I am impressed.

Your files would cause envy to any major library. Thanks for posting the photos.

What about Otto's illegitimate children ? Did they get married and leave descendants ?

Did Franz Josef NEVER heard of Maria Josepha's liaison ?
He doen't seem the man to understand that given the life Otto had, M-J could find "comfort" with another man

[MarieCharlotte]

Well I am impressed.

Your files would cause envy to any major library. Thanks for posting the photos.

What about Otto's illegitimate children ? Did they get married and leave descendants ?

Did Franz Josef NEVER heard of Maria Josepha's liaison ?
He doen't seem the man to understand that given the life Otto had, M-J could find "comfort" with another man

This is what I wrote in June about Otto's children - I'm sorry, but I don't have more information about them:

Archduke Otto, son of Karl Ludwig and Maria Annunziata of the Two Sicilies, had two well-known mistresses: Marie Schleinzer and Louise Robinson. Otto had two children with Marie, Hilde and Alfred. He even acknowledged them.
When Marie Schleinzer has already been about 40 years old and had this two children, she married Dr. Julius Cohn Edler von Hortenau from Abbazia. Hilde and Alfred were given the name "Cohn von Hortenau", too.
I don't know much about Otto's children. Alfred became a doctor and worked in Abbazia just like his step-father Julius. After WW II, Alfred moved to Sweden and the USA, but in the 1960's he came back to Abbazia to look for some documents concerning his family. He was married two times, his second wife was apparently from Zagreb.
Hilde moved to America, too. When she came back to Abbazia and married Madara Kuczor, she had a shop where she sold flowers. In about 1941 the shop has been closed.
Marie Schleinzer died in 1949 and is buried in Abbazia.

As for Maria Josepha and Otto Tressler: I have a book in which their relationship is mentioned, but I couldn't find this book yesterday. Sometimes there are too many books on the floor and it's not easy to find a special one.  But I will tell you more about them later.