Author Topic: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions  (Read 30326 times)

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Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2005, 10:45:31 PM »
Marie Pavlovna writes about many of the aristocrats in her memoirs.  

Many of the men became Paris taxi drivers, waiters, factory workers, etc.

The women sewed, laundered, waited tables, and did anything else they could to get by.

She states that the Paris shops were full of Russian jewels, old lace, and sables.

Most of them were ill-equiped for their lives in exile.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Prince_Christopher »
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Offline polignac

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2008, 03:08:21 PM »
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9906E2D8113FE432A25754C2A9659C946095D6CF&oref=slogin

Who was mme. Aristarch Kovalesky and mme. Volkov? I don't know them, or either their families...

Offline Nicolay

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2008, 05:23:58 PM »
As I remember the Volkovs were a prominent Family,
and surely you can find something on google.ru

But I like your Idea in regard to random findings,
I remembered this one!


http://www.obarsiv.com/english/as-lady-employees.html
http://www.obarsiv.com/english/as-lady-employees-vera.html
http://www.obarsiv.com/images/galeri/02vera05b.jpg

Offline Phil_tomaselli

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2008, 02:52:45 PM »
Going back to my old, and probably deeply boring theme to most forum members, the Russian community in Paris was closely connected to British intelligence in the 1920's and 1930's.  If anyone has any information on White Russians with connections to Wilfred Dunderdale and/or Ernest Boyce I'd be obliged to hera from you.

Phil Tomaselli

Offline Windsor

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2008, 11:03:06 AM »
I have always wondered, did any of the affluant Russian exiles in Paris employ those exiles without means?  Give them shelter?

Offline Nadya_Arapov

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2008, 11:36:23 PM »
I know that more than one Kovalevsky held a prominent position in the Russian Navy. There was also a famous scientist by that name. I believe they were wealthy before the Revolution. As Nicolay posted, there was a prominent, well-connected, aristocratic family named Volkov. However, Volkov is a fairly common name, I believe, in Russia. I can't help but wonder if the "Ignatovitch" mentioned in the article is actually a reference to the Ignatievs.

To answer your question Windsor, yes, some of the more affluent exiles did hire the less fortunate. Several exiles ran fashion houses of one sort or another and employed virtually only fellow exiles for instance. Schools and other organizations were started for the exiles children using by more fortunate exiles using their own money and money raised at bizarres/fundraisers.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 11:41:46 PM by Nadya_Arapov »

Constantinople

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2008, 04:59:07 PM »
My godmother's family had a lot of contact with exiled Russian aristocrats in Par's.  They did a lot to help but also bought a lot of jewels from them. Her father Prince Jean Poniatowski had a fairlly large house in Paris and held a number of events to help out.  I visited my godmother in January and she showed me two pieces of Faberge jewelry that had been purchased from Russian exiles.

Offline Nicolay

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2008, 02:12:35 PM »
As Nicolay posted, there was a prominent, well-connected, aristocratic family named Volkov. However, Volkov is a fairly common name, I believe, in Russia. I can't help but wonder if the "Ignatovitch" mentioned in the article is actually a reference to the Ignatievs.


Dear Nadya,
Just came across the information that there are "two" seperate lines of Volkovs with two different Coat of Arms,
also you might be right with your theory in regard to Ignatiev.

1.) There is a Ignatov family in/around Paris
2.) the ending (..vym) is sometimes mistaken/translated for "...vitch"

Something to look into!

Best wishes....

Offline Nadya_Arapov

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2008, 02:27:39 PM »
Thank you for the extra information, Nicolay. ;-)

Constantinople

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2008, 02:44:06 PM »
One of the Ignatiieffs lives in Canada and is a well known intellectual turned politician.  His name is Michael Ignatieff and I believe he is a professor at Harvard or Yale when he is not a parliamentarian.  He is a descendant of the minister who was minister of the interior and education minister under Nicholas II.

Constantinople

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2008, 02:52:49 PM »
Here is his bio
His father was a prominent Canadian diplomat


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ignatieff

Offline Nicolay

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2008, 03:50:53 PM »
Just for completion,
there are two separate lines of Ignatiev,
also with two distinctly different Coat of Arms!

Best regards
:)

Constantinople

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2008, 10:07:32 PM »
Well the one that Michael is descended from was Nicholas' minster of education,

Paul Ignatieff
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Count (Comte) Paul Nikolaevich Ignatieff (Russian: Павел Николаевич Игнатьев) (August 1870 – 1945) was the Minister of Education and senior advisor to Tsar Nicholas II of Russia from 1915-1917.

Paul's father Count Nikolay Pavlovich Ignatyev,was Russian Minister of the Interior under Tsar Alexander III of Russia.

Ignatieff married Princess Natalya Meshcherskaya (1877-1944) in Nice, France on April 16, 1903. They would have five children, all boys.

As a result of the Bolshevik Revolution, Ignatieff and his family fled to the West. (Ignatieff was the only top minister of the Tsar to escape execution by the Bolsheviks.) In 1925, the family emigrated to Canada, and settled permanently three years later in Upper Melbourne in Quebec.

One of the Ignatieff's sons, George, was a prominent Canadian diplomat. One of their grandsons, Michael Ignatieff, is an author, former Harvard professor and (as of September 2006) Canadian Member of Parliament.

[edit] References

    * Ignatieff, Michael. The Russian album. New York, N.Y.: Viking, 1987.
    * Count Ignatieff address to the Empire Club of Canada
    * "Countess Ignatieff". New York Times, 30 Aug 1944: 17.
    * Index with link to Ignatieff genealogical information
    * "Nicholas Ignatieff". New York Times, 30 Mar 1952: 93.
    * Russians in Exile

Offline bongo

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2012, 07:13:19 AM »
We always hear about Russian exiles that struggled. But which families (not just Romanovs) survived very comfortably? Who had homes and other assets in the West that they'd bought before the Revolution, or managed to escape with a significant amount of wealth? For the purpose of the discussion let's ignore the Yusupovs, given that we all know their story inside out. From my reading it seems Grand Duke Michael lived well, bringing out his gold plate and owning a Corfu villa, and of course (briefly) Grand Duchess Vladimir with jewels and her palatial villa at Contrexéville. I'm guessing, given the large pre-WW1 Russian community in the South of France, not a few families landed on their feet quite well -- with their Cannes, Menton and Monte Carlo villas at least.

This thread is prompted by my recollection of an ad in a 1960s copy of Realities magazine.  It announced either a Christies or Sothebys auction of the contents of the Villa Demidov. The picture had tapestries and and malachite pillars. OK, it may not have been owned by the Demidovs by then, but I'd love to know. From some reading on Wikipedia I'm guessing it may have been inherited by Prince Paul of Yugoslavia through the Demidovs who clearly had an eyewatering amount of wealth outside of Russia due to their massive art collection in Italy and it was his auction.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 07:40:52 AM by bongo »

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Russian Nobility in exile: various questions
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2012, 08:42:34 AM »
Grand Duchess Vladimir did indeed bring a substantial quantity of assets out of Russia, but only lived in exile for a few months. I don't know about her son  Boris's financial situation, but Andrei and his wife ran out of money around 1930 and had to finance themselves by Mathilde opening a ballet school. They seem to have lived a fairly unostentatious lifestyle, but nevertheless could not survive on wealth alone.

Grand Duke Mikhail Mikhailovich seems to have lived pretty comfortably in exile until after the Revolution, but then had to be bailed out by George V, and by his son-in-law, the diamond millionaire Sir Harold Wernher.

Grand Duchess Xenia was looked after by George V in terms of accommodation.

I suspect one major problem was that most of them had fairly expensive tastes, were used to high living and could not - or would not - refine their expectations downwards to match their resources. The main exception was Olga Alexandrovna.

Ann