Author Topic: Change of history  (Read 8284 times)

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Offline Teddy

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Change of history
« on: October 06, 2005, 03:47:14 PM »
When Nicholas went from Tobolsk to Yekaterinaburg. Alexandra went with him.

What if Alexandra choose to stay with Alexei and the girls. Maybe Nicholas was only shot instead of the whole family.
And were Alexandra and the children interned elswhere and even maybe saved by the Whites.

I think that if Maria not had gone with her parents, the children would be interned elswhere and maybe got their freedom back to send them to their grand mother.

But because Alexandra and Maria went also to Yekaterinaburg, Nicholas created for the rest of his family the situation which made it possible for the rest of his childeren to eventually join him. I think its sure/undoubtedly signed their death warrant.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Teddy »

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2005, 08:56:00 PM »
Hmm this is interesting!  :o I might have to agree...that maybe if they had stayed...

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2005, 09:22:21 PM »
I think that Bolsheviks would never allow Alix and the girls to stay in Tobolsk.

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Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2005, 09:49:09 PM »
I would like to think that they would only have shot Nicholas and Alexandra (remember, she was hated by the Bolsheviks as much as he was) if the children had been separated from the parents. But the assassinations of people like Ella, who was of no conceivable harm to anyone, persuade me that in the end, the Grand Duchesses and the Heir would have been killed as well. It might have let poor Botkin, Demidova, Trupp and Kharitonov off the hook, although it didn't help Schneider and Hendrikovna.

The Bolsheviks really were despicable.

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Offline Georgiy

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2005, 10:13:05 PM »
I wonder though, if there had been some attempt to get them out of Russia via a northern route. I don't know how possible or feasible that would have been, nor how long after the Tsar was taken away before the river was thawed enough for such an escape route....

Offline Teddy

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2005, 11:59:38 PM »
You must remember that the IF was very populuar and that they had some change to be freed.

So I think that the children had more change to survive if they were seperated from their parents.

But because Alexandra (and Maria) went with Nicky their changes were lost. They Bolscheviks had only one choice. Bring the family back together (they hadn't also not have a clue were the jewels were)


Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2005, 09:55:35 AM »
I just have one question: why wouldn't they have just killed Maria?

Offline Teddy

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2005, 10:08:26 AM »
I think that the Bolsheviks had no intention to kill the whole family, only Nick and Alex and maybe only Nicholas.

But because Alexandra and Maria went with the Tsar, the changes of the children were shut down.

I think that if Maria had stayed with the other childeren the childeren would have been freed or taken to somewhere else or send to Maria F in the Crimea.

The only person(s) they wanted to kill where Nicky and Alix.

Expecially because of that Maria went with her parents the only thing the Bolsheviks could do was to send the other childeren also to Yekaterinaburg. And because they were there, they choose to shot also the childeren.

But I also think that because they didn't found any jewels when Nicky, Alix and Maria arrived in Yekaterinaburg in their luggage, they knew that they (the jewels had stayed in Tobolsk) had to bring the other childeren to Yekaterinaburg to get the jewels.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Teddy »

Offline Teddy

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2005, 10:18:07 AM »
Quote
But the assassinations of people like Ella, who was of no conceivable harm to anyone, persuade me that in the end, the Grand Duchesses and the Heir would have been killed as well.


Louis Charles. I think that the Bolsheviks had no intentions to kill the children. They only wanted the grown ups and ecspecially the men, because men in those time were involved in politics.

You can say, but why Ella. Maybe she, because she was also German AND the sisther of the hatred Tsarina.

No other lady of the Romanov family is killed and you must remember they had many oppurtunities to arrest the Dowager Empress in Mogilev (when she went to Nick) and to get Irina (who went to Kerensky), Olga K at the gate with easter when she brought a easter egg to the Empress, Tatiana K. who was with her uncle Dmitri in the Palace, or the Paley ladies and Maria P jr who was at the palace of Grand Duke Paul..

So I think the Goverment had not any intention to kill women and children, only maybe the Tsarina and Ella. And the last, only because she was the sisther of the hatred Tsarina.

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2005, 10:30:05 AM »
I think very much depends upon on how long they'd have stayed in Russia. Had they left Russia immediately after Nicholas' departure for Ekaterinburg, I doubt they would have been stopped. During that time Ella had the chance to escape.
Any delay, however, I think would have guaranteed their deaths anyway. The Bolsheviks hatred of any connection to the Romanovs was so apparent not only in the unnecessary murder of Ella, but also that of all the remaining Grand Dukes...and even Prince Paley.
In the end, I agree with Louis Charles...the very fact that they were Romanovs would have signed their death warrant.

Offline Tatia

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2005, 10:35:49 AM »
Quote
I think that the Bolsheviks had no intention to kill the whole family, only Nick and Alex and maybe only Nicholas.

Who do you mean here with 'Alex'?

I don't think history could have been different, at least not in the way you are suggesting, because NAOTMAA would not have wanted to be separated; I think if Nicholas was the only one who would get killed, the rest of the family would rather 'join' him on 'the other side' (sorry, this sounds really weird but I don't know another way to write it) than to have survived, and having to live the rest of their life without their husband and father.

Offline Teddy

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2005, 10:43:14 AM »
Tatia, if the Bolsheviks had wanted that the childeren were beiing seperated of their parent. The whole IF could spring up and down, beg on their knees..but they were seperated if liked it or not.

You must think, that Nicky was not longer a ruling Tsar. Who could snap in his fingers and order something of someone, but they were prisoners.

If Lenin had descided to separate the children of their parents then his order was "the order".

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Teddy »

Offline Grand Duchess Marishka

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2005, 04:31:59 PM »
I think it is possible that that Alexandra was going to die, but if I remember after all my thorough reading, I think the Bolsheviks wanted to kill Nicholas and Alexei, for being really the only two who could reclaim the throne, even if Alexei wasn't all too well.
I know they were hoping to spare the women at first, even though they despised the Empress' backround. Obviously, everything else came into play with Marie.
But you are right, all of you, with the ideal of no good dirty rotten Bolsheviks. I hated them so much, I wrote a story and based the antagonists off of them, even incorporating an alteration of the name.
Well, they are where they belong now...
And the Romanovs are in a heavenly place, which I'm sure you all know, even if you aren't Christian.

Peace out, love you guys.

Offline Caleb

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2005, 06:26:29 PM »
Well it also could have been under the own initiative of the Ural Soviet. Personally I think Yurovsky was a heartless, cruel man. Had the orders not come from Lenin & the Bolsheviks in Moscow, it really shows how evil the Ural Soviet really was! I also like to think that had Trotsky been in charge instead of Lenin, I think things would have been diferent (but I'm not sure of Lenin's role in the execution) I'm not making judgements or jumping to conclusions, but I think that perhaps if Stalin had been alive, I think he would have passed a death sentence for the czar, at least.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Change of history
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2005, 08:21:48 PM »
I read somewhere (I have sooo many books about the IF! Maybe too many...) that the Bolsheviks wanted NO ROMANOV living in Russia any more. This mean that all of them must be killed. Ella's assassination speak by itself what would have happened to the girls if they would have remained in Tobolks.  :'(

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