Author Topic: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk  (Read 61615 times)

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amanduhh592

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #90 on: November 28, 2007, 05:57:31 PM »
I've never seen those before!
Really Cool!

Alixz

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #91 on: November 28, 2007, 06:26:05 PM »
It certainly does look like Alexei and his sisters.

We know that in Tobolsk, they were, at first allowed to go outside and even requested to walk about town.

In another thread, we have been discussing Alexei's height.  The first picture gives us a good indication of his height in relation to the man standing in front of him.  And Alexei looks to be walking quite straight and in good health.

Both the house in Tobolsk and the Ipatiev House in Yekaterinburg look so similar in style.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #92 on: November 28, 2007, 10:28:06 PM »
WOW!  8)

I'm quite certain that is indeed Aleksei and his sisters in Tobolsk. (A portion of a side street alongside the governor's mansion was fenced in so the family could walk outdoors. The fence and small porch also match other photos from Tobolsk.) In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Tatiana is in the first photo, while Anastasia, Olga and Tatiana are the GDss in the second photo.
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Offline mr_harrison75

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #93 on: November 29, 2007, 09:16:34 PM »
I think you're right, Sarushka. Both Olga and Tatyana wore the same clothes on other pictures of them in Tobolsk, especially that white scarf that Olga N. had.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #94 on: November 29, 2007, 10:32:41 PM »
What a great, great finding! These Russian sites has a lot of stuff really. In the last photos, there is Olga and Tatiana together, and Anastasia could be seen alone, with her head down, searching I do not know what in her clothes... ::)

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Offline Natasya

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #95 on: November 30, 2007, 04:23:10 PM »
Amazing...there don't seem to be as many summer Tobolsk photos.
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #96 on: March 08, 2008, 03:50:33 PM »
There is no question that Aleksei was ill with a bout of hemophilia in April of 1918, and that his illness prevented the family from being transported together to Yekaterinburg. As has been discussed here and on similar threads, it's impossible to know for sure whether that hemophilia attack was brought on by Aleksei's sledding down the steps, or by a chronic cough which worsened that same night.

Further, sledding on the steps was *not* an accident; it was a deliberate playtime activity.


I've been comparing documents from the IF's imprisonment in Tobolsk and found and interesting bit of information regarding Aleskei's sledding on the steps and his last attack of hemophilia:

I'd always thought the sled ride and the final hemorrhage happened within 24 hours of each other. Massie and other sources certainly present the events that way. However, according to Aleksei's own diary, he received the toy sledge and boat on 25 March. He and Kolya spent that day playing with them on the steps. According to Alexandra's diary, Aleksei's hemorrhage began on the night of 29-30 March, a full four days later. In the meantime, Aleksei and Kolya practiced archery and broke up pools of ice in the yard. Alexandra attributes the hemorrhage to a bad cough, which she mentions for the first time on 30 March.

I'm no medical expert, but IMO this four-day delay between Aleksei sledding down the stairs and developing his last hemorrhage makes it less likely that the two events were directly linked. Particularly since he was active and apparently in good health between the two events.
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Offline pandora

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2008, 01:45:11 PM »
The delay in hemorrhage due to the sledding incident is very possible and of course, the chronic cough didn't help Alexei's situation. Various medical websites explain that an injury can occur and the sufferer may only feel slight stiffness but as the injury progresses, of course the hemorrhaging becomes evident.

Peterhof

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #98 on: March 09, 2008, 06:11:02 PM »
I'm inclined to believe Alexandra's diary entry as the explanation for Alexei's hemorrage.  Kolya and Alexei spent their time outdoors in the cold playing games those days.  Coughing might very well had caused the bleeding.  There's not first hand witnesses of Alexei injuring himself by sledding the stairs.

Offline mr_harrison75

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #99 on: March 09, 2008, 06:54:43 PM »
I agree. Just think of the Spala incident. Aleksei fell on the boat, If I remember correctly, and almost immediately there was an hemorrhage. I believe you are correct, Peterhof.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #100 on: March 09, 2008, 08:43:28 PM »
If you are interested this published paper "An Inheritance that no one Desired" (acclaimed by several university professors and will be used this year as a student reference by one Australian University in Victoria) provides information about the events you are discussing:

The information may be found under the heading "A Duality of Events"

See:
http://www.facesofrussia.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=2

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Offline pandora

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #101 on: March 09, 2008, 09:25:06 PM »
Belochka - the website you posted was very interesting & informative. Thank you.

Alixz

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #102 on: March 09, 2008, 09:40:47 PM »
If his hemorrhage was caused by a cough, then why were his groin and legs effected?

He never walked again.

I am no medical expert, but having read about Alexei and hemophilia even as little as I have, I think that a cough would be more likely to cause bleeding in the chest and lungs.

And I know that I have read that the cause of the bleeding might not seem too catastrophic when it happens, but that it is "progressive" and the bleeding can continue unchecked until it does become a problem.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #103 on: March 09, 2008, 10:34:33 PM »
If his hemorrhage was caused by a cough, then why were his groin and legs effected?

He never walked again.

I am no medical expert, but having read about Alexei and hemophilia even as little as I have, I think that a cough would be more likely to cause bleeding in the chest and lungs.

And I know that I have read that the cause of the bleeding might not seem too catastrophic when it happens, but that it is "progressive" and the bleeding can continue unchecked until it does become a problem.

If playing on the stairs initially triggered the bleeding in the groin, I could see how a bad night of coughing might exacerbate the problem...
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Peterhof

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Re: Alexei's Fall at Tobolsk
« Reply #104 on: March 10, 2008, 07:51:53 PM »
Perhaps nothing really happened with the boat and the stairs.  Perhaps the hemorrhage started due to Alexei and Kolya rough playing outside and his coughing.  To slide down the stairs in a boat is pretty outrageous in my view, especially for a person suffering of hemophilia.  If that had caused the hemorrhage, wouldn’t Alexandra have mentioned it in her diary?