Author Topic: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk  (Read 62509 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Katya90

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #105 on: March 26, 2010, 11:59:06 PM »
Sorry I'm so late at replying to this one...
At Spala, didn't Alexei initially feel fine after he slipped getting into the boat, but then later he went for a carriage ride and the jostling suddenly put him in pain? So perhaps the same sort of thing happened with the sled and the coughing.

Also, how close to his being ill was the family told that some of them would be taken out of the house? I ask because when we saw Nicholas & Alexandra in our history class, all of us were pretty disturbed by him deliberately closing the door and then riding into it. Since that scene happened at the exact time that they were getting ready to leave in the movie, our teacher told us Alexei was trying to devise a way to make the family stay in Tobolsk longer. Being bedridden would have certainly done it. Whether or not that resembles anything of the actual situation I don't know... I certainly don't think Alexei would sled into a closed door... just down a set of stairs seems less dangerous. I used to "sled" down the stairs in my house on pillows and never had any incidents of "crashing" into things. Didn't Marie Pavlovna also do this with her toddler son in Sweden, on a tray or something? Anyway, I don't think Alexei was suicidal, but could he possibly have been trying to keep his parents from leaving? At least it's a less harsh way of looking at all the movie interpretations of the scene...

Offline rosieposie

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 435
  • Eva Duarte de Peron, May 7 1919 - July 26 1952
    • View Profile
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #106 on: March 27, 2010, 07:21:48 AM »
I thought the accident happened prior to the N,A and M leaving.  The reason the whole family didn't go was because of the accident and O,T and Anastasia stayed behind to look after Alexei while he recovered.

Agree I don't think he was suicidal, he was just fooling around like most bored teenagers.
Beautiful faithful Nargony.
Thanks Emily!

Miranda:" Everything begins and ends at exactly the right time and place."
"Picnic at Hanging Rock" (1975) Movie.

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #107 on: March 27, 2010, 08:09:59 AM »
Quote
At Spala, didn't Alexei initially feel fine after he slipped getting into the boat, but then later he went for a carriage ride and the jostling suddenly put him in pain?

Close -- at Spala, he slipped in the boat and was ill for a number of days. He seemed to have recovered when Alexandra and Anna Vyrubova took him out for the ride that triggered the crisis.


Quote
Also, how close to his being ill was the family told that some of them would be taken out of the house?

If you look a few posts down, you'll see the dates you're interested in.

Sledding: 25 March/7 April

Coughing: 30 March/12 April

NAM leave: 13/26 April

So the movie is incorrect -- Aleksei was ill for approximately two full weeks before NAM were transferred to Ekaterinburg.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline blessOTMA

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2527
  • Tell me the truth, monsieur
    • View Profile
    • Stay at Home Artist
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #108 on: March 27, 2010, 08:21:12 AM »
I believe boredom and or the  daredevil impulse people with chronic conditions often have as the reasons and it could have been both together!
But in reading this thread, it seems it was something that he did with a playmate more than once. in his diary , Alexis says they did it for "ages" .In the movie N&A,  they make it seem it was out of the blue and a direct attempt to alter events...it's an interesting question...because so often events are made up of many things and in a combination that we , over 90 years later , might not be able to see.

As for who is who in the amazing photos Nemos  posted in  Posts: 461 on page 6
I would say left to right

Tatiana, Alexis, Nicholas, guard


Anastasia, Olga, Marie
and I believe a case can be made this was the same day of the roof photo,where they are sitting in a line, based on the clothing
(which seem a complete match)  and just the fact that photos are being taken. I don't believe it was an every day event like before captivity .
These photos are so evocative...the crushing boredom is palpable


"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #109 on: March 27, 2010, 08:37:44 AM »
But in reading this thread, it seems it was something that he did with a playmate more than once. in his diary , Alexis says they did it for "ages".

That's correct -- Aleksei and Kolya played all afternoon on the stairs.

During the following days, Aleksei played with his boat/sledge in the yard, broke up ice on the small duck pond, and practiced archery.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline blessOTMA

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2527
  • Tell me the truth, monsieur
    • View Profile
    • Stay at Home Artist
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #110 on: March 27, 2010, 09:37:49 AM »
......During the following days, Aleksei played with his boat/sledge in the yard, broke up ice on the small duck pond, and practiced archery.
Then imo, it would be impossible to say the indoor sledging caused the attack. What is interesting is Tatiana Botkin seems to be the source of the idea that the  indoor sledging = Alexis's  attack...and what we might be hearing is a concern of her father expressed about the indoor sledding , become a certainty in her memories. But lord knows 

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline blessOTMA

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2527
  • Tell me the truth, monsieur
    • View Profile
    • Stay at Home Artist
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #111 on: March 27, 2010, 02:59:11 PM »

 

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline blessOTMA

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2527
  • Tell me the truth, monsieur
    • View Profile
    • Stay at Home Artist
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #112 on: March 29, 2010, 12:48:44 AM »
So the above two photos is actually one cut in two..and the man next to Alexis is not the Tsar...he's off to the side a  bit


"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline blessOTMA

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2527
  • Tell me the truth, monsieur
    • View Profile
    • Stay at Home Artist
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #113 on: April 22, 2010, 10:57:19 PM »
rereading this thread...so the story about the sledding on the stairs was from Tatiana Botkin...But it seems it  started life  in her book as simply  an example of the kind of rough games Alexis would indulge in...However it  is now seen as the cause for his last attack....Quite a leap . But as was shown in this thread, he sled  down the  the stairs " for ages"  and was fine for days afterwards...Just about rules out  the sledding was the cause. .... how legends are formed

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline nena

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2927
  • But every spring smells like you.
    • View Profile
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #114 on: April 23, 2010, 08:11:09 AM »
Close -- at Spala, he slipped in the boat and was ill for a number of days. He seemed to have recovered when Alexandra and Anna Vyrubova took him out for the ride that triggered the crisis.

Close - he slipped in the boat in Bialowieza in mid of September in 1912, not at Spala. Though they are both located in Poland.
-Ars longa, vita brevis -
Mathematics, art and history in ♥

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #115 on: April 23, 2010, 01:59:09 PM »
Close -- at Spala, he slipped in the boat and was ill for a number of days. He seemed to have recovered when Alexandra and Anna Vyrubova took him out for the ride that triggered the crisis.

Close - he slipped in the boat in Bialowieza in mid of September in 1912, not at Spala. Though they are both located in Poland.

You're absolutely right -- I'd forgotten. Thanks!
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Gorseheart

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 164
    • View Profile
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #116 on: May 31, 2010, 12:53:07 AM »
Well I think him and Kolia did the sliding thing on purpose for fun, and the coughing caused the haemorrhage. When doctors check guys "Down there" they have them cough. Maybe this would help. :) The IF did many dangerous things. In one of Anastasia's diary entries (on this site) she says that ALL of the children went into a dark room and fired guns at each other, and that Alexei got scared and left. I don't think that it was a sucide attempt, he seemed to think that the Hemophilia would get him first.
"Today is like yesterday and tomorrow will be the same as today.  God, help us! Take pity of us!"~ Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich Romanov


aleksandr pavlovich

  • Guest
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #117 on: June 01, 2010, 02:33:42 PM »
Re: Reply # 116 of "Gorseheart":   I must say that I've never seen reference to, or read, that particular entry as you say is in the diary of the Grandduchess Anastasia N. about  "ALL the children went into a dark room and fired guns at each other...." Are these supposed to be REAL firearms?  Seems HIGHLY unlikely!  For my edification, may I ask that you give the FULL EXACT quote, date, geographical location of where this is supposed to have occurred (city, town, etc.) and the source ? Also, why your very strange comment on this incident, as  "I don't think that it was a suicide attempt....." (meaning on the part of the Heir) ?     AP.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 02:57:57 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #118 on: June 01, 2010, 07:39:20 PM »
Re: Reply # 116 of "Gorseheart":   I must say that I've never seen reference to, or read, that particular entry as you say is in the diary of the Grandduchess Anastasia N. about  "ALL the children went into a dark room and fired guns at each other...." Are these supposed to be REAL firearms?  Seems HIGHLY unlikely!  For my edification, may I ask that you give the FULL EXACT quote, date, geographical location of where this is supposed to have occurred (city, town, etc.) and the source ?

Anastasia to NII:
Jan. 5, 1916, p.113
"...Nothing special is happening here. Mother is lying and we usually have breakfast and dinner nearby. But we have tea in the bedroom. We all have pistols now and we like to shoot very much. In the evenings after dinner we go to play in the Corner room where Olga, Maria, Alexey and I hide from each other and then shoot at each other in the darkness, but Alexey is sometimes scared and does not enter the room..."

(quoted from the main APTM site)

Apparently Alexandra also complained to the tsar about the children's noisy gun play in one of her wartime letters. I'll see if I can find it for a direct quote.


Quote
Also, why your very strange comment on this incident, as  "I don't think that it was a suicide attempt....." (meaning on the part of the Heir) ?     AP.

This incident has been portrayed in at least one feature film (Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna) as a suicide attempt on Aleksei's part.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Riding his sled/sledge down the stairs at Tobolsk
« Reply #119 on: June 01, 2010, 07:49:08 PM »
Alexandra to Nicholas, 4 Jan 1916:

"The Children are eating & fire away with their rotten pistols."

(Complete Wartime Correspondence, pg 345)
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King