Author Topic: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..  (Read 137922 times)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2005, 10:20:59 AM »
No I don't think Ella could have changed the course of histroy. However I truly believe that Wilhelm will be a much moderate person than the one that was spoiled by Dona's affection. Ella with her beauty and influence, could have created to more harmonous household (which her sister Irene did achieve at a lesser level).She could have taken another beautiful woman's mantle, Queen Louise of Prussia. With her beauty she could have conquered Willy and the old kaiser (who was in love with Empress Sisi and liked Alix of Denmark a lot).
and her tact could have work wonders with old Augusta and Vicky. She could have captured all hearts in Berlin just as she did in Russia. However that was not meant to be.

Another senario would also be true, had Ella produced children with haemophelia. Would Willy be as wonderfully as Nicky or as selfish as Alfonso XIII. I tend to think the latter...

Yes. Vicky has no qualms about Ella as a daughter-in-law. She main concern was the connection was too close. Also she deemed Ella too girlishly moody and not natural enough. She wrote to her daughter Sophie openly saying that she prefer the natualness of the Wales girls and Ducky to Alix and Ella.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2006, 11:44:43 AM »
Changing the course of history would have been hard for one woman, especially given all the issues involved. But I do think that if Ella had married the Kaiser, they would have made a very interesting couple, to say the least. They were both interesting, dynamic people, and they might be remebered fondly as one of the great royal couples had they surmpunted their individual differences and been united. It woudl have been hard to be united if their son or sons proved to have hemophilia. I myself don't think Ella was a carrier, but we will never know. I don't think the Kaiser would have much liked hemophiliac sons, of cpurse, and this might have created issues. Ella would never have married him, though, as all powers were against it, ( thus, no pressure), and she never cared for him personally at all, in fact disliked him.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2006, 11:50:25 AM »
It's possible, although a long shot to say that. Of course, anyone can understand why Ella did not marry Wilhelm. He was a mix of bad and good qualities as we all are, but he was horribly pompous, and aware of his own worth. The only type of woman who could really have stood him was a quiet mouse type like Dona, although she wasn't as a good a wife that way. Ella can't be blamed for avoiding him. But he did really care for her, and even had she had hemophiliac sons, I don't think that would have changed. I think the infertility issue, or lack of romance issue was with Sergei, not Ella. Ella might have been able to bring out the Kaiser's better qualities. I don't think their marriage would have been a disaster, although I am not sure if it would have changed history either. I think it might have made Wilhem a better person, and given Ella a chance at a more normal life than being Sergei's wife.

Offline TzarinaAlex

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2006, 11:38:32 AM »



    Had Willy and Ella married I think she would have tried have done her best to keep WWI from happening. Willy would not have been a overbearing preening clost homosexual that he was. Dona accepted the fact (and probaly knew ) he was a closet homosexual, but being as plain as she was being Empress of Germany was far better than being a dowdy princess from Augustenburg. As to Ella she would have dealt  Willy with far better since GD Sergi was a gay and a control freak he kept her like a doll. Willy would have given her passion and she would have finished the work of Vicky. My opinion is that Sergi made Ella a cold personality, Willy would have challenged her and given her purpose in her charitable work in reforming Germany.

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2006, 01:29:36 PM »
Quote



    Had Willy and Ella married I think she would have tried have done her best to keep WWI from happening. Willy would not have been a overbearing preening clost homosexual that he was. Dona accepted the fact (and probaly knew ) he was a closet homosexual, but being as plain as she was being Empress of Germany was far better than being a dowdy princess from Augustenburg..

Hello :) Do we have facts to support these statements? Although I do not know a great deal about Willy, though enough to know he treated his mother disgracefully, I have not heard of him being a possible homosexual.

Thank you :)
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2006, 03:23:15 PM »
I don't think was...although he was hooked at one point to BDSM. He asked a prostitute to tie him up...The woman later blackmailed him. Bismark helped him out of that (from John Rohl's books on Wihelm). What a choice for Ella, either Willy or Serge...No wonder she wanted to become a nun... :(

Offline lilavanderhorn

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2006, 05:14:25 PM »
I do not think William was gay.  He was a man's man.  He had to be ultra macho to prove himself.  That does not make him homosexual.  I read in Greg King's latest book that he was well aware of Sergei's affairs with young men.  Of course he and everyone else.  I got the impression that he made fun of it in an "I told you so way."   Then he sort of bad mouthed poor Ella after she became a nun.  I was at B&N reading the book, so I skimmed through very fast, so I might not have gotten that right.  Interestingly enough, he got married not too long after Dona's death.  Wasn't there a standard mourning period?  He certainly moved fast.  Here is a link to some videos of him and his (I assume) new wife.
http://www.huisdoorn.nl/test/index2.html

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2006, 05:47:28 PM »
It seems the genesis of the stories regarding any homosexuality come from the fact that his closest friend, Philip Eulenburg (sp), was 'outed' in a very public way during the Kaiser's reign. Plus, he seemed to associate almost entirely with men, having very little to do with women.

As for his remarriage, he seems to have not been able to cope well with being on his own.
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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #68 on: May 07, 2006, 07:03:40 PM »
Quote
It seems the genesis of the stories regarding any homosexuality come from the fact that his closest friend, Philip Eulenburg (sp), was 'outed' in a very public way during the Kaiser's reign. Plus, he seemed to associate almost entirely with men, having very little to do with women.

As for his remarriage, he seems to have not been able to cope well with being on his own.


I rather think he was a repressed homosexual.  Certainly the horseplay he and his buddies engaged in was rather strange ::) ::)  The intense macho act also points that way.  Judging by the letters he wrote his mother in his teens, there was something unbalanced there, also.  It does seem that his visits to Dona's bedroom aside, he was rather a mess sexually.

What a choice for Ella--Serge vs Willie :-/

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2006, 08:47:32 AM »
I think Wilhelm was a mess in general, although I think he was straight. He was a man's man, and that can be misinterpreted. If Ella had married him, she would no doubt have had a difficult marriage as with Sergei. Wilhelm was a bit warmer though. Ella deserved better than either of these men, really.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #70 on: May 08, 2006, 05:47:38 PM »
I think Ella would have had a happier life had she married Fritz of Baden, A nephew of Empress Augusta. Both Serge and Willy had major problems in their sexual lives, and could be a bit unbalanced. However both Willy and Serge were powerful and rich. Although I believe Ella married Serge because she felt sorry for him and wanted to protect him...

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #71 on: May 08, 2006, 09:19:23 PM »
That's true--Frtiz often gets overlooked in the 'who should Ella have married' scenario. He was QV's choice and the Empress Augusta was for it as well. I think Ella would've had a contented life in Baden--there were a good number of opportunities for charity work along the lines that she was familiar with in Darmstadt. I haven't read much about him, apart from the letters to/from QV, but he seems to have been a decent fellow and Baden was a pretty liberal environment it seems.
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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #72 on: May 09, 2006, 09:15:26 AM »
Yes, for a woman like Ella, neither of the men we are talking about ( Sergei of Russia, or Kaiser Wilhelm) are to be wished on anyone. Perhaps she would have been happier with this German Prince.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #73 on: May 09, 2006, 01:24:13 PM »
Anyone have any photos and information on Fritz of Baden ?

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #74 on: May 09, 2006, 06:21:34 PM »
Friedrich II, Grand Duke of Baden
b.1857; abdicated Nov 1918; d. 1928
m. 1885 Hilda of Nassau, Princess of Luxemburg (sister of GD Wilhelm)

They had no children, so the succession went to his nephew, Prince Max of Baden (he of the broken engagement to GDss Helen Vladimirovna).

He was the son of GD Frederick and Pss Louise of Prussia. Louise was the only daughter of Kaiser Wilhelm I. This made her Fritz's sister (and Vicky's sister-in-law) and only paternal aunt to Kaiser Wilhelm II. (I wonder what Wilhelm's reaction would've been if Ella had married his 1st cousin and lived nearby!)

He had a sister, Victoria (1862-1930) who married Gustav V of Sweden. Their eldest son married (1) Margaret of Connaught and (2) Louse Battenberg (by then Lady Louise Mountbatten).  There was a brother, Ludwig, who died at 20 mos.

They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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