Author Topic: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..  (Read 137924 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2006, 06:43:39 PM »






Re: the fallout from the attempted matchmaking:

QV to VMH 1 Jan 1883: ' Do tell me what you think abt Ella & Fritz of Baden? He is excellent? & I hear from all sides did his work admirably & with great selbst standigkeit. [independence] Ella shd not marry for a year or 2--but it wd be a vy nice & comfortable position for her.'


Vicky to QV 6 Mar 1883: 'You will have heard that there was some little disagreeableness here--between Louis [GD of Hesse] and the Baden family. I will not touch upon it because it is no business of mine. I only think that they were a little hard on Louis, and I felt very sorry for him.

QV to VMH 7 March 1883: 'How very unfortunate it is of Ella to refuse good Fritz of Baden so good & steady, and with such a safe, happy position, & for a Russian. I do deeply regret it. Ella's health will never stand the climate wh. killed your poor Aunt & has ruined the health of almost all the German Psses. who went there...You told me, only quite lately darling child, that you thought Ella cared for no one? What does this all mean? It will give poor Papa much trouble & annoyance but I am doing all I can to make it smooth with all the Empress who is badly annoyed. ' [Footnote: The German Empress was indeed upset at Ella's refuseal of the hand of Fritz of Baden and 'cut her dead' at a ball soon after the news became known. 'The Empress seems very angry--she and the Badens had made sure of it--unwisely'.]

QV to Vicky: 14 Mar 1883: 'Your account of the affair about Ella is just mine who know all from Louis who deeply regrets it. But it is most unjust to accuse Louis of want of openness. The only chance was to wait--instead of which Louise and Fritz [Sr] hurried it on, and Louis could not in justice to his child help telling her that others had wished to marry her--when she declared she would not accept poor Fritz of B. junior. Perhaps he did not make himself agreeable or make his wishes very evident? A russian marriage would be very painful to me and it is not wished by Louis, anyhow none is to be wished for at present. I can't do anything about Irene. I am sure that would not either be likely.'

QV to VMH 21 Oct 1883: 'I own, I think Irene is right when, quite naively, a propos of Ella's not taking Fritz of B wh. I said I regretted as I thought she wld not easily find so good a person--(tho' I never blamed her refusing him if she did not care for him)--she said, 'Oh! I tink she wld be happy with anybody!' Pray don't let poor Irene hear this. I said to Papa...that whatever I felt I did not intend to follow the example of certain people's behavior with respect to F of BW when Ella refused him.'

After the Fritz Baden plans fell through, and it seemed that Serge was making inroads, QV for awhile pinned her hopes to a potential match with Carl of Sweden (who later married Ingeborg of Denmark and was the father of Queen Astrid of Belgium and CPss Martha of Norway) but it doesn't seem this went beyond a preliminary discussion.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2006, 06:47:15 PM »
Fritz with his eventual wife Hilda of Nassau





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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2006, 08:20:25 PM »
I wonder about Fritz of Baden (apart from Vicky and Queen Victoria), are there any reports about his character. I think he is less complicated and needy as both Willy and Serge seemed to be.

Offline TampaBay

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2006, 06:13:52 AM »
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Friedrich II, Grand Duke of Baden

They had no children, so the succession went to his nephew, Prince Max of Baden (he of the broken engagement to GDss Helen Vladimirovna).



Did not QV want Alicky to marry Max of Baden at one time?

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Offline TampaBay

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2006, 06:15:30 AM »
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I wonder about Fritz of Baden (apart from Vicky and Queen Victoria), are there any reports about his character. I think he is less complicated and needy as both Willy and Serge seemed to be.

He must have been smart and well educated because he was the last Imperial Chancelor of Germany.

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2006, 08:53:56 AM »
That was his cousin, Prince Max of Baden.
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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2006, 08:55:59 AM »
It's defintely an interesting possibility that she may have married him ( the Baden prince). I am not sure she would have wished to stay in Germany though, and be separated from all her royal relatives by World War I, and be on the loosing side. She was always a woman who had common sense, and I feel she would not have wanted to be grouped with such individuals as the man she might have married, the Kaiser. Of course, had she married him, perhaps so much woudn't have happened that was bad.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2006, 08:56:51 AM »
The Baden royal family was pretty well-educated it seems. Both GDs Friedrich were closely involved in the University of Heidelburg--Jr even attended there and was involved in student organizations. As the GD, both men served as provost (or a position like that) of the University and were instrumental in making it a very prestigious university. There's even an inscription in the Library about GD Friedrich but I'm not sure which one. They were also pretty enlightened and greatly concerned about the welfare of their Jewish citizens, in stark contrast to many European royal families.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #83 on: May 10, 2006, 09:03:36 AM »
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It's defintely an interesting possibility that she may have married him ( the Baden prince). I am not sure she would have wished to stay in Germany though, and be separated from all her royal relatives by World War I, and be on the loosing side. She was always a woman who had common sense, and I feel she would not have wanted to be grouped with such individuals as the man she might have married, the Kaiser. Of course, had she married him, perhaps so much woudn't have happened that was bad.

Of course if you don't love somebody, you don't love them, but looking at in of the face--temperaments, situation, etc...it would seem to have been a good match. WW1 was 30 years off so she would've had all those decades to live peacefully in Germany. She also would've at least been with Irene & Ernie (she was his favorite sister). She would've been very near to Darmstadt--just a couple of hours--which would've been a plus. She also could've done charity work straight off rather than having to wait until the last decade of her life to make it a substantial part of her life. The Baden family was very involved in their Grand Duchy and Ella could've been a Baden version of Alice. Of couse, GDss Louise lived until at least 1910 (I'm not sure of her exact date of death but she was at King Manuel of Portugal's wedding) so it would've been a shared duty but nonetheless. She also would've been able to get over to see QV fairly frequently which would've pleased both of them as she would've also seen her sister Victoria more often as well. And considering Alix probably wouldn't have crossed paths with Nicholas since there was no Ella to visit in Russia, there's a large chance that she would've married a German princeling as well--if she hadn't caved and married Eddy--so she actually would've had more of her siblings around her during WW1. All hypothetical of course but it does seem it would've been a calm and contented path had Ella's heart been engaged in that direction.
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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #84 on: May 10, 2006, 09:14:47 AM »
This might have been a beneficial course. Her life would definetly been more more simple and happy than other wise. She might have been more in her element, and it would have been better for her before World War I, although I am not so sure about after. Ella was someone who might have been happier leading a normal normal existence than she did in Russia.. But then, her match with Sergei was something of a love match.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #85 on: May 13, 2006, 03:51:55 AM »
I guess it wasn't a traditonal love match. Ella's love for Serge came with a bit of feeling sorry for him (wishing to take care of him), admiring his intelligence and his stories of a far-away enchanted land called Russia. His riches was another added attraction, but I think Serge soulful and artistic nature greatly attrached Ella as well. I agree that had Ella married into Baden, all their lives could indeed have turned out much happier... :(

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #86 on: May 18, 2006, 03:48:03 PM »
That is true- Baden might have been a better place for her. She had some happiness with Sergei. It was not as bad as some Royal marriages turned out. I'm not sure their royal relatives ever thought they were  that happy though. It's hard to judge how much good the marriage of Sergei and Ella had, particularly from retrospect.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #87 on: May 18, 2006, 06:49:27 PM »
Well...Had she marry Fritz, Ella might have a more balanced life, some children and less dependent on religion as a means of escape as she later did. However yes, Ella will have less jewels, less parties to go and of an importance in society.

Offline TampaBay

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #88 on: May 19, 2006, 06:13:37 AM »
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I guess it wasn't a traditonal love match. Ella's love for Serge came with a bit of feeling sorry for him (wishing to take care of him), admiring his intelligence and his stories of a far-away enchanted land called Russia. His riches was another added attraction, but I think Serge soulful and artistic nature greatly attrached Ella as well. I agree that had Ella married into Baden, all their lives could indeed have turned out much happier... :(


Was Elaa really that unhappy prior to Serge's death?

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #89 on: May 19, 2006, 10:53:47 AM »
Well...I think Ella was content with her life by that stage, however she was a woman unfulfilled (no children of her own and a life of restictions). The details of Serge's life must have reached her ears, but as a proud woman herself, she couldn't resign herself to believe it. The pitying looks and whispers must be hard for her to bear. The increase of her interest in religion seemed a natural outlet for her. Ella still loved Serge in her own way, but tension in the marrige was noted.